過去三十年MVP所在球隊排名勝場而論，今年很大可能是哈登或詹皇？

美國JRS之聲

過去三十年MVP所在球隊排名勝場而論，今年很大可能是哈登或詹皇？

A look at the seeding and win records of past MVPs (self.nba)

看看過去30多年MVP所在球隊的勝場數和排名 (帶*的為縮水賽季）

[–]RaptorsDeKobe-DeBryant 144 指標 1 天前

This is why I have been saying it"s between LeBron and Harden.

You can"t win with a team that"s 4th or below in the conference, especially since only 2 people have even won with the 3rd seed!

Harden is averaging 28/8/12 so even though it"s crazy to average a triple double, Harden is that far behind and his team is better.

LeBron is having his best year since coming back to Cleveland and has been unstoppable. 26/7/8 averages on amazing efficiency and his three has come back, also his team has the best winning percentage in the league when he plays.

這就是我說MVP會在勒布朗和哈登之間產生的原因。

你不可能在球隊排名第四或是更低的情況下還能獲得MVP，尤其是過去那麼多年裡只有2位球員在球隊排名第三的情況下獲得了MVP。

哈登目前場均數據為28/8/12，儘管場均三雙看上去更瘋狂，但是哈登也沒有差多少而且他的球隊戰績更好。

勒布朗正在打出回到克利夫蘭後最棒的一年，騎士現在的表現無人能擋。場均能夠高效的砍下26/7/8這樣的數據，外加找回了自己的三分球手感。當他能夠上場時，騎士的勝率是聯盟最高的。

[–][GSW] Draymond Greengerkenamoe 64 指標 1 天前

If not LeBron or Harden, KD.

勇蜜：如果不是勒布朗和哈登的話，肯定就是KD了。

[–][POR] Clifford RobinsonSardinesGivePower 119 指標 1 天前

This is a media award, narrative matters. KD will not win it after joining GS unless GS somehow wins more games than last year.

Doesn"t matter if you think that"s right or wrong, that"s how it has always been. It"s the same reason no one has ever three-peated as MVP either, the media gets bored.

Harden"s team is massively overachieving pre-season expectations and Harden is going nuts.

Lebron"s popularity is at an all time high now and he"s having another tremendous season.

Westbrook has a better chance than Durant too if the Thunder can get hot and win 54-55 games. Durant bailing, but the Thunder matching their last season win total is a great story.

Durant joining a 73 win team and winning less than 73 games isn"t a good story, doesn"t matter how efficient Durant scores.

MVP是由媒體評出來的獎項，輿論也會影響最終的結果。在KD加盟勇士後，他基本上是不會拿到這個獎了，除非他們在今年常規賽中贏下比去年更多的比賽。

不管你對於這種評判方式滿不滿意，一直以來MVP都是這樣評出來的。這也是為什麼從來沒有一個人連續三年獲得這一獎項，媒體們會產生審美疲勞。

哈登的火箭隊現在已經極大地超出了賽季初人們對於他們的期望，而且他本人的表現也非常瘋狂。

勒布朗的受歡迎度也達到了空前的高度，而且他也正在打出另一個非常出色的賽季。

如果雷霆最後能贏下54-55場比賽，威少獲得MVP的幾率便會超過杜蘭特。因為在杜蘭特出走的情況下仍然取得和去年一樣的勝場是一件非常了不起的事情。

至於杜蘭特，他加入了一支去年取得73勝的球隊，最後球隊如果沒能達到這一勝場數的話，聽起來就不太好了，不管他的效率有多高。

[–]Spursztejas 28 指標 1 天前

If the Warriors win 70 games and Durant continues to put up fantastic numbers while being one of the best defenders in the league he has more than a shot. I do think that for KD to win the Warriors absolutely have to beat the Cavs at home and go 2-1 against HOU. Westbrook is the wild card in that OKC is probably not going to finish in the top 3, but if he averages 30/10/10 he will definitely get votes.

And Larry Bird won 3 MVPs in a row.

如果今年勇士能拿下70場勝利，而且作為目前聯盟最好的防守者之一的杜蘭特能一直砍下出色的數據的話，他肯定有更大的機會去贏得MVP。我認為如果KD最終想要贏得MVP的話，勇士必須在接下來主場對陣騎士的比賽中取得勝利，而且在之後兩場對陣火箭的比賽中都取勝，把對陣他們的戰績變成2-1才行。威少不太好說，他在雷霆打出了神一般的表現，但是球隊不太可能最終取得第三的排名，但是如果賽季結束他還能場均30/10/10的話，顯然他會得到很多記者的投票。

另外，拉里-伯德三連了MVP。

[–]RaptorsFourCylinder 9 指標 1 天前

KD one of the best defenders in the league?

KD是目前聯盟最好的防守者之一？

[–]Spursztejas 35 指標 1 天前

He really is. I"m not saying top 5 but top 20 is hardly a stretch.

他現在真的是。我並不是說他是前五的防守者，但是說前20一點都不過分。

[–]RaptorsDeKobe-DeBryant 16 指標 1 天前

KD won"t win if LeBron didn"t win in 2011.

如果2011年的勒布朗都沒有獲得MVP，那麼今年KD是不可能拿到的。

[–][LAL] Julius RandlePairedFoot08 28 指標 1 天前

I think the fact the heat weren"t the number 1 seed in the east hurt them, the fact Drose and the bulls won 4 more games than the heat with much less help was the narrative as much as anything. If the Warriors fall behind the Spurs or Cavs I think it"s the same situation.

我覺得當年熱火沒有取得東部第一的席位對勒布朗的MVP之爭很不利，羅斯在幫手少得多的情況下還帶領公牛取得了比熱火多出四場的勝利，這個背景比任何其他事情都有說服力。如果今年勇士最終戰績不如馬刺或者騎士的話，KD的處境就和當年勒布朗一樣了。

[–][CLE] LeBron Jamesaustine567 10 指標 1 天前

As cool as it would have been to have Lebron win 5 in a row, I think Rose was perfectly deserving in 2011.

騎蜜：雖然勒布朗本可以5連莊MVP，但是我覺得2011年的羅斯拿這個獎絕對是當之無愧的。

[–]HeatGiannis1995 14 指標 1 天前

Definitely not. Even Dwight was more deserving...

肯定不是。霍華德當年都比他更配得上MVP...

[–]LakersZedsShadow 2 指標 1 天前

How? The Magic were a fourth seed that year. This is the point of this thread.

怎麼說？魔術那一年排名才第四，這也正是這個主貼的中心所在。

[–]NBAFGCHENG 15 指標 1 天前

But it"s easy to understand the logic behind it. Derrick Rose led the Bulls to the #1 seed in the East the year D-Wade, Lebron, and Chris Bosh teamed up. The MVP was certainly earned and well deserved.

KD has a shot to win it if he continues to play impressive basketball and the Warriors lock up the #1 seed. If the Warriors fall to the #2 seed, KD will have absolutely no shot.

I think Harden has got a good chance to win even if the Rockets end up with the #3 seed. The Rockets and Harden have both overwhelmingly exceeded expectations.

但是羅斯拿MVP背後的邏輯非常容易理解，他帶領著公牛在韋德，勒布朗，波什組建三巨頭的第一年拿到了東部第一的席位，顯然他應該得到MVP而且是實至名歸的。

如果KD一直保持目前這個水平，同時勇士鎖定西部第一的話，他還是有機會拿到MVP的。但是如果勇士掉到了第二名，顯然他就一點機會都沒有了。

我覺得就算火箭最終排名西部第三，哈登也有非常大的機會去拿到MVP。今年不論是火箭還是哈登，都極大的超出了人們對他們的預期。

[–][CLE] LeBron Jamesaustine567 7 指標 1 天前

I didn"t say he was the most deserving but he was fine. I would have picked Dwight or lebron as well but I don"t think it"s fair to say Rose wasn"t deserving.

騎蜜：我並不是說羅斯是最當之無愧的MVP，但是他確實很棒。我也會選勒布朗或是霍華德作為那一年的MVP，但是如果說羅斯不配當年的MVP的話，顯然就不公平了。

[–]CavaliersNothingIsTooHard 8 指標 1 天前

I honestly think there"s a shot at a different story this year. Russ has been playing out of his mind, it"s partially about the story. And the narrative is already there for him, if he"s able to put up a better record than last year while averaging a triple double.

I would always prefer to see LeBron win it, but there may be an unquestionable case for Russ if this continues

騎蜜：我真感覺今年的劇本會不一樣，威少現在已經打瘋了，而且媒體可能會同情他的處境從而偏袒他。如果今年他能帶領雷霆取得比去年更好的戰績，同時場均三雙的話，基本上拿獎的劇本就已經寫好了。雖然我總是希望勒布朗能夠獲得MVP，但是如果威少持續現在的表現，沒道理最後他拿不到這個獎項。

[–]Piascika20 12 指標 1 天前

He HAS to average a triple double in my opinion. Even if he averages 30, 9.8, 9.8 and gets the 6 or 7 seed no way he wins it. Without the on paper triple double average I don"t see it personally

我個人感覺威少必須要場均三雙才有可能，就算他打出30+9.8+9.8這樣的數據，然後球隊排名西部第6或者第7的話，他都不可能拿下MVP。沒有板上釘釘的場均三雙，我個人不覺得他能拿到MVP。

[–]WarriorsKevinAndrewsPhoto 5 指標 1 天前

Thats the dumbest thing to me. We rate a 10 so much higher than a 9.8.

Who gives a shit?

I honestly think Hardens 28.5 | 12 | 8.1 is equally as impressive. And if you include efficiency it makes Harden even more impressive.

And including wins its no contest.

Yet people are acting like those 2 extra rebounds makes Westbrook an alien.

這真是我看到過的最愚蠢的事。我們居然認為10比9.8水平要高得多。

誰特么在意這些啊？

實際上我覺得哈登場均砍下28.5 | 12 | 8.1這樣的數據和威少就已經同樣出色了，另外如果你考慮到哈登的效率的話，這會讓他顯得更好。

再加上勝場數的比較，毫無懸念哈登會勝出。

然而目前為止大家都認為威少多出的這兩個籃板就讓他看起來像個外星人。

[–]Piascika20 3 指標 1 天前

Oh I completely agree with you but that"s just how it is

雖然我完全同意你的觀點，但是事實就是這樣（場均三雙就是比准三雙輿論效果更好）。

[–]Raptorsrjddude1 1 指標 13小時前

This is Harden"s year. I can feel it in my bones.

今年是屬於哈登的一年，我從骨子裡就能感覺到。

[–]Warriorsuntouchable765 2 指標 1 天前

If he keeps this up for the last 60% of the season he probably will. Only other choices I see right now on this track would be KD or Lebron.

如果哈登在剩下的賽程中保持這樣的表現，而且他也很有可能做到，那麼其他的還能和他競爭一下的球員就只有KD和勒布朗了。

[–]Trail Blazersdipset4444 29 指標 1 天前

so lowry has an outside shot. ill take those odds, what are those odds?

洛瑞處在MVP的邊緣，他會不會逆襲啊，成功的概率有多少？

[–]Goudge 8 指標 1 天前

Lowry has no chance - not as a function of his overall value, but how he accumulates that value and the narrative surrounding him. "New age" writers understand that he is the far superior player in his backcourt, but a lot of the old school media were clamouring for DeRozan outside MVP support over him. It"s just hard to see him getting many votes over the 5 spot on the ballot unless Toronto finishes with the 1 seed.

洛瑞幾乎沒有任何機會——並不是說他的表現不夠好，而是說他在什麼樣的大前提下打出了這樣的表現。雖然一些NBA現代派寫手能夠看出他比人們認為的要強許多，但是很多老派的媒體仍然大肆鼓吹德羅贊才是MVP。除非猛龍最終打到東部第一，否則很難看到他在MVP投票中處於前五。

[–]johncenatbh 46 指標 1 天前*

Harden should win it even if he is 3rd seed.

就算火箭最終西部第三，哈登也應該拿MVP。

[–]Rocketsscrewt 36 指標 1 天前

I think if the Rockets can finish 3rd, he"ll get it. Otherwise it"s KD"s/LeBron"s

火蜜：我覺得如果火箭最終西部第三，哈登的MVP就穩了。否則的話就是KD或者勒布朗的。

[–]johncenatbh 7 指標 1 天前

Clippers are dealing with injuries, Utah wont catch Houston, i think 3rd seed is where they will end up

快船現在飽受傷病困擾，爵士肯定趕不上火箭的。我覺得第三是火箭最終的排名。

[–]SpursBearsNecessity 10 指標 1 天前

I don"t see Durant winning this. He"s had a great year but many voters will punish him for teaming up with the Dubs. That"s a big part of why Rose beat out LeBron in 2011.

I think LeBron has a really good chance at this if Russ shatters the triple double record and splits votes away from Harden.

我不覺得杜蘭特會拿下MVP。他雖然打出了非常出色的一年，但是很多投票者為了懲罰他加盟勇士，都不會給他投票。這也是羅斯在2011年擊敗勒布朗的很大原因之一。

我覺得勒布朗有很大的機會獲得MVP，如果威少不能夠保持目前場均三雙的水平，勒布朗肯定能從他這裡多得到很多票數，縮小與哈登的差距。

[–]RocketsHyperactivity786 3 指標 1 天前

I think wins has alot to do with it as well. If Westbrook gets his team to 52 or 53 wins, but still only has 4th or 5th seed, it"s gonna be close between him and Harden. If Westbrook gets his team to 45-50, out of the conversation, but will still get votes

我覺得勝場數對最終結果的影響也很大，如果威少最終能帶領球隊獲得52到53勝的成績，就算雷霆排在第4或者第5，他與哈登之間的差距也會很小。但是如果雷霆只拿到了45~50場左右的勝利，他就沒機會了，雖然還是能得到一點票數。

[–]Rocketsayobae_ 9 指標 1 天前

Harden goooooona win it

火蜜：哈登肯定會贏下的。

[–]Bullsgulaabjaman 11 指標 1 天前

Man, I hope so. I"m still mad about how he was completely ignored last year.

我也希望如此，大兄弟。我現在對去年哈登所遭到的冷遇仍然感到非常生氣。

[–][GSW] Gilbert Arenasvelocirappa 9 指標 1 天前

That"s what happens when you win 42 games and get crushed in the first round

這就是當你的球隊只有42勝，然後季後賽一輪游時會發生的事情。

[–]WizardsFIFTYPUFF 10 指標 1 天前

Holy shit, I didn"t realize you basically have to the 1-2 seed to win MVP

見鬼，我都沒意識到基本上你的球隊必須排名前2，你才有機會獲得MVP。

[–]SupersonicsHectorButler 7 指標 1 天前

This is why I think its bizarre that anyone is saying any particular player has it in the bag. Why would voters suddenly change how they vote after about 30 years? Do people think in that entire time no player ever has had a season on par with Westbrook/Harden and missed out due to team record?

這就是我覺得有人說某個球員在今年的MVP評比中會有例外很奇怪的原因。為什麼那些投票的傢伙會突然改變他們30年來的習慣？難道過去30年間沒有一個傢伙打出過近似威少/哈登這賽季的表現，然後因為球隊戰績不好就與MVP失之交臂嗎？

[–]ThunderWrital 5 指標 1 天前

Can you name someone in the last 30 years who has had a season that is on par with averaging a triple double?

雷蜜：那麼請你說說過去30年有哪一位球員在哪一個賽季能夠打出場均三雙的表現？

[–]armpitcurry 18 指標 1 天前

The triple double stuff is madness at this point. It serves a purpose, to show that a player is playing many aspects of the game, but it gets taken over by the aesthetics of the rule of 10s. A player averaging 38/10/9 isn"t averaging a triple double, but is basically one rebound away from doing so.

現在聯盟中的三雙表現太火爆了。三雙有著特定的意義，它能顯示出一個球員有多麼的全面，是怎樣的在各方面都能影響到比賽，但是這個數據有點被美學觀點統治了，你必須要拿到雙數以上才行。如果一個球員場均38/10/9，這仍然不是場均三雙，儘管離場均三雙就差一個籃板罷了。

[–]TheCabIe 13 指標 1 天前

Yeah, exactly, it"s one of those psychological things. A player averaging 30/12/8 is more valuable to a team than a player averaging 25/11/10, but the whole aesthetic aspect of it takes the cake.

正是這樣，這時候主觀因素就進入主導地位了。一個場均30/12/8的球員顯然比另一個場均25/11/10的球員對球隊的貢獻更大，但是這時候佔據主導地位的是美學層次上的觀點，必須要全部上雙。

[–]76ersRedDane 6 指標 1 天前

Don"t get me wrong, Westbrook is really impressive this season. Averaging a triple double is insane.

That said, it shouldn"t be an automatic MVP just because he"s averaging a triple double. I don"t think him getting a lot of open rebounds is especially valuable for the team. Him getting half the rebounds and half the turnovers would benefit the team a lot more, IMO. He wouldn"t get nearly the same MVP hype though.

不要誤解我，威少這賽季非常瘋狂，場均三雙太變態了。

但是也不是說場均三雙就一定要給他MVP。我不覺得他得到的很多空位籃板球對球隊有很大的幫助。如果他把自己的籃板數和失誤數同時減少一半，這樣會對球隊好得多。但是這樣他就不會得到這麼多MVP的造勢宣傳了。

[–]Raptorer 5 指標 1 天前

Kobe and Shaq with only MVP each. Blasphemy!!

科比和沙克居然各自只拿過一次MVP，簡直是對神靈的褻瀆！！

[–]RaptorsMvcraptor11 7 指標 1 天前

If you combine Kobe and shaq"s mvps and finals mvps, they equal lebron"s combined mvps and finals mvps.

科比和沙克得過的MVP和FMVP的總數剛好和勒布朗的MVP和FMVP總數一樣多。

[–]ThunderBussellBestbrook 13 指標 1 天前

No hate to Steph, but James "The Man" Harden should"ve won the MVP in 2015. He carried the rockets to the 2nd seed for petes sake.

沒有對庫里的任何不敬，但是2015年的MVP更應該給哈登。他把那支火箭隊帶到了西部第二。

[–][GSW] Monta EllisJcanicosa 9 指標 1 天前

Because Harden had worse teammates than Steph, he deserved the MVP? Maybe if he carried he rockets to a better record than the Warriors, but the difference in record between the Warriors and the rockets that season was the same as the rockets and the 8th seed. Steph carried his team just as much as Harden did

就因為哈登有著比庫里差一些的隊友，他就更應該獲得MVP嗎？也許如果他帶領火箭隊在排名上超過勇士的話，會有一些機會，但是那賽季最終勇士與火箭的勝場差和火箭與西部第八的勝場差是一樣的。庫裡帶領球隊進步的程度和哈登相當。

[–]Rocketsstack24 11 指標 1 天前

the biggest issue I have is not with him winning it, it"s the media...that year they said Curry gets it because he is the best player on the best team and it doesn"t matter that Harden carried our team. This year, writers are already saying that Westbrook should get it because he is carrying the team and not Harden because he has a better team. I just like the bullshit narratives.

火蜜：對我來說最扯淡的事情不是哈登沒有獲得MVP，而是媒體的風評...那一年他們說庫里得到MVP是因為他是最好球隊中最好的球員，所以不管哈登帶隊取得了多大的成績，還是沒用。然而今年他們幾乎已經欽定了威少是MVP，並說是因為他在憑一己之力帶領著球隊贏球，而哈登的隊友要好得多。這種扯淡的輿論我真是呵呵了。

[–][GSW] Monta EllisJcanicosa 8 指標 1 天前

I thought the "best player on best team" narrative was bullsht too. They don"t give credit to the superstar for making the team better. Steph made his teammates better that season by orchestrating our offense and making it work the way it does just like Harden does to his team"s offense this season.

我覺得「最好球隊中的最好球員」就是扯淡的話。這種話沒有考慮到超級球星對球隊所做的貢獻，是他們讓球隊變得更好了。庫里那一年通過自己的努力讓我們打出了行雲流水般的進攻，就像今年哈登在火箭做的一樣。

[–]Rocketsayobae_ 5 指標 1 天前

Does no one see rockets getting 2nd seed I mean we"re only 1.5 away so probably today we"ll get 2nd

火蜜：就沒人認為火箭最終能達到西部第二嗎，我的意思是，我們與馬刺只差1.5個勝場，說不好今天我們就是西部第二了。

[–]Cavalierssrysawitlive 5 指標 1 天前

If you end up with 2nd it will be straight up robbery to not give it to Harden.

如果你火最終西部第二，MVP仍然沒有給哈登的話，那就跟打劫沒啥兩樣了。

[–]KnicksLamentably 7 指標 1 天前

it really should go to LeBron. He"s by far the Most Valuable Player in this league and it"s not even close. His ability to change the game in any way is obscene.

真的應該給勒布朗。目前為止他都是聯盟中最好的球員，而且都沒有第二個與他接近的。他改變比賽的能力無人能比。

[–][TOR] Jonas Valanciunasblemdaze 1 指標 1 天前

First time for everything

凡事都有個第一次。

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