真有魔咒？榜眼英格拉姆真實正負值聯盟最差|投射糟糕無大學風采

美國JRS之聲

真有魔咒？榜眼英格拉姆真實正負值聯盟最差|投射糟糕無大學風采

Advanced Stats have Brandon Ingram as the worst player in the league right now, how alarming is that?

高階數據（真實正負值）說明布蘭登-英格拉姆是目前全聯盟最糟糕的球員（數據截止至1月3日）。是不是值得擔憂下他的前景了？

Advanced Stats (Real Plus-Minus)

have #2 pick Brandon Ingram by far as the worst player in the league right now.

I know every advanced stat has flaws but they at least give a picture/trend.

How alarming is that right now?

高階數據如下（真實正負值）

榜眼秀英格拉姆是聯盟現今最爛的球員

我知道每個高階數據都是有自己的缺陷的，但好歹能說明一個趨勢

想知道各位JRs被嚇到了么

各隊球員真實正負值（英格拉姆-5.8聯盟最差）

(因為圖片太大，上傳不了，所以只截取了一部分，完整圖片：http://photo.weibo.com/5450836769/wbphotos/large/mid/4060925646614896/pid/005WT9E5gw1fbgvz5h0odj30mx6ad7wk）

[–]Lakerssstizzle 607 指標 3 天前*

It"s alarming in that Brandon"s jump shot is broke and he was touted as a shooter in college, so he"s a bad presence for them offensively when he enters the game. It"s just bad if he can"t even knock down wide open jumpers.

It"s not alarming in the sense that players who are as raw as Brandon don"t get the kind of minutes he gets (27 mpg). I don"t think he"d be the worst player statistically in the league if he was being played minutes that made sense for his current level of NBA readiness (15?)

最值得擔憂的是，大學時他是以投射著稱的，而現在他的投籃爛的匹爆裂。所以當他上場的時候，會對湖人的進攻產生很不利的影響。要是大空位投籃都投不進的話，要他何用。

大多數技術和他一樣糙的球員得不到這麼多上場時間（場均27分鐘）。但我覺得他如果出場時間能夠更合理的話，他不會這麼爛。

[–][ATL] Pete Maravichlipstickpizza 53 指標 3 天前

One thing a lot of people who don"t watch these games is that he"s being asked to do way too much for a rookie.

Every other player has a role on the team. Walton had Ingram being a point forward and setting up the offense while Russell was out. He always sticks the other team"s best player, and does a fair job of it as well.

But this experience will help him for next year and beyond. Probably will see it towards the end of the season. He"ll be a damn good player. Advanced stats don"t tell the whole story.

很多不看他比賽的人都意識不到，他作為一個新秀肩負的責任太重了。

其他的每個球員在這支隊伍里都有固定的角色，但沃頓在拉塞爾不在的時候卻讓他去打了組織前鋒。他還總是去盯防對方的最強球員，這個活他幹得實際上也不錯。

這段經歷會在他以後的職業生涯中幫到他的。說不定這個賽季末就能看出效果了。他一定會是個厲害的球員的，高階數據也不能解釋所有問題。

[–][MIA] Dwyane Wadedrpepper7557 171 指標 3 天前

He was a mediocre shooter in college (shot only 46% from 2), at least for someone people said could be the next great scorer. He shot only 67% from FT, which is another red flag.

He"s very smooth so he got a lot of looks, and hit enough that he was able to be a great player. I think people saw this and overrated his shooting ability. However, he did get really hot towards the end, so heres hoping that he starts making them in this league.

他大學是個很平庸的投手（兩分球命中率只有46%），最少對於一個人們給他的期望是超級得分手的球員來說，這不夠優秀。罰球也只有67%，這更不合格了。

他打球很絲滑，所以他有很多空位機會，他也投中了不少球，人們才覺得他是個不錯的球員的，但我覺的也正是這個原因，人們過度誇大了他的投射能力，不過，他大學生涯快結束那會手感確實熱得發燙，所以祝願他能逐步提高自己的命中率吧。

[–]Lakerssstizzle 150 指標 3 天前

He also shot 41% from 3, so while his shooting numbers are kind of inconsistent across the board, he was projected as a do-it-all 3&D forward to complement Russell nicely. What seemed like the perfect pick.

Seeing him not be able to convert anything is genuinely concerning to me. I guess he can turn it around, because he is extremely young and has all the time in the world, but did we really want to draft such a project player with the 2nd pick? You usually get these multiple year projects later in the draft. I didn"t think he"d be this raw. I had low expectations, but I thought the one thing he could bring is spot up shooting.

他還有41%的三分命中率，所以數據上來看，他的投籃表現並不是很一致。他被預測能夠成為一個跟拉塞爾很搭的全能3D球員，所以看起來湖人選他沒毛病。

看他很多時候不能把機會轉化成得分讓我也很心痛，但我覺得他還是可以改變這種情況的，因為他確實很年輕還有大把的時間可以來進步。但我湖真的應該拿第二順位選一個只是有前景的球員么？這種潛力需要幾年才能兌現的球員一般都是選秀後段才會被選中。我當時沒想到他這麼糙，我雖然期望很低，但還是希望他能夠立刻給球隊提供投射火力的。

[–][HOU] Tracy McGradysyash12 60 指標 3 天前

Who would you have rather taken? Bender is a project too and I think he was the 4th(5th?) pick, honestly aside from simmons, and who knows what hes gonna look like, this draft was weak

那你更願意選誰？本德爾也是個空有潛力還需要操練的小夥子，我覺得他確實也是4，5順位的前景。實際上除了西蒙斯，但現在也沒人知道他能到啥水平。只能說這屆新秀弱爆了。

[–]Lakerssstizzle 98 指標 3 天前

No one. I"m not going to get revisionist on the draft, really. And there"s no one picked afterwards that"s worth getting all revisionist either.

I"m lamenting that we were at our absolute worst record-wise the wrong year. Not having a pick in this draft feels like a major franchise setback.

實際上這屆選秀沒什麼人會重新做選擇。也沒哪個順位值得重選。

我真是覺得我湖擺爛擺錯了年份，今年選秀沒有個簽位真是球隊的倒退。

[–]Pistonszepg[S] 50 指標 3 天前

I agree that a big part of the rating is the amount of minutes he"s getting / negatively affecting the team

我同意這種說法說，他得到這個低評分的原因是他打的時間太多了，對球隊造成了負面的影響。

[–]Lakerssstizzle 111 指標 3 天前

Yeah, if Brandon was on a playoff team or borderline playoff team, he would be getting half the minutes he currently does. But Luke is prioritizing getting him accustomed to the NBA, and I agree that it"s a good call for this team, so it"s something we"ll have to live with.

如果英格拉姆在一個季後賽球隊或者是季後賽邊緣球隊的話，他上場時間就會打個對摺。但看起來沃頓正在努力讓他適應NBA，我也覺得這對球隊來說是個好事，所以大家還是忍忍吧。

[–]CelticsFartrelCluggins 33 指標 3 天前

But how often is a #2 pick drafted to a playoff team. Usually #2 picks end up starting and playing a lot of minutes.

但是季後賽球隊拿到榜眼簽的概率是多少呢。一般榜眼被選進來後都會有很多上場時間的啊。

[–]CavaliersIAmJimmyNeutron 75 指標 3 天前

Currently, Jaylen Brown I suppose.

現在的話，杰倫布朗就被選進了季後賽球隊啊。

[–][BOS] Evan Turnerbillbrown96 27 指標 3 天前

Magic and Kareem, Scottie Pippen... I can"t think of any others - oh wait, NBA champion Darko Milicic

魔術師和賈巴爾，皮蓬，我想不到其他直接被選進季後賽球隊的高位新秀了……哦等等，還有NBA冠軍球員達科-米利西奇。

[–][LAL] Metta World PeaceWalrusInMySheets 14 指標 3 天前*

What #2 picks recently can you think of that have lived up to expectations in their rookie year? KD absolutely, but past that, maybe just Oladipo, partially due to not having much to live up to.

Other than that you have Thabeet, Beasley, MKG, Evan Turner, Derrick Williams, Jabari Parker (he was injured but still underwhelming), and D"Angelo.

Edit: I should add LaMarcus Aldridge to the success column.

說實在話這些年有哪些榜眼達到了人們的期望？很明顯杜蘭特達到了，但除了他，可能就只有奧拉迪波了，也可能是他們沒什麼模版和動力吧。

其他一些球員比如塔比特，比斯利，麥基吉，埃文特納，德里克威廉姆斯，賈巴里帕克（雖然是因為受傷但還是沒達到期望）以及拉塞爾。

補充一下：阿爾德里奇應該被加進達到期望的那一隊。

[–]NBAClutch_ 33 指標 3 天前

Jabari Parker was leading the ROY race before he got injured....

帕克在受傷前可是領跑最佳新秀的競爭啊。

[–]76ersBirdRights 10 指標 3 天前

i always thought it was weird people called him a pure shooter. his form was never great and he shot like 69% from FTs which is the best tell of how good a guy"s shot really is. for comparison simmons shot 67% on similar volume.

that said, playing a lot isn"t going to hurt him in the long run.

我總覺得有些人總把他視作純射手很奇怪。他投籃姿勢不優秀，罰球只有69%的命中率更是直接反映了他的水平。跟西蒙斯的67%一個水平。

[–][CLE] Iman ShumpertUnbiasedExpert 5 指標 3 天前

JR was 63% from FT line las season and 73% throughout his career.

JR上賽季罰球命中率67%，整個職業生涯也不過才73%。

[–]76ersBirdRights 11 指標 3 天前

okay you"ve named one exception to the rule. and i"d argue JR is more of a good tough shot maker than a pure shooter, which is what people were calling ingram. ingram can"t shoot off the bounce like JR

行吧，你找出來了個例外，但我要說jr更偏向於一個高難度射手，而不是一個純投手。而人們說英格拉姆是純投手，英格拉姆投籃時候可不會像JR那麼跳。

[–]CelticsBarkevious_MemeO 122 指標 3 天前

Nah pretty much no rookies do well by the advanced stats, and being on a bad young team he plays more than most rookies.

實際上沒有哪個新秀的高階數據能看得過去，但作為一個身處爛隊的新秀，他打的時間確實比別的新秀要多。

[–][MIA] Mario ChalmersLaMarc_GasolDridge 25 指標 3 天前

I wish everyone had this attitude about Mudiay last year.

我希望去年大家對穆迪埃也是這個態度。

[–]LakersDuckman_10 9 指標 3 天前

He was a victim of that half a month of stellar basketball he put out. Everyone knew he was a total project but then he outplayed D"angelo in the summer league and made everyone totally forget that

他是被這半個月的主角光環拖累了。大家都知道他是個待開發的球員，但他夏季聯賽打得比拉塞爾還好讓大家忘了這個事。

[–]RaptorsDeKobe-DeBryant 14 指標 3 天前

I think Lavine had a stat like this when he first started out that said he was like the worst rotation player in the NBA. I remember he was struggling off the bat and people thought he wouldn"t ever be good.

He"s the second youngest player in the NBA, he"ll get better.

He has struggled so far though.

我記得拉文剛開始打的時候，數據看起來也是這個樣子，當時有人說他是聯盟最差的輪換球員。我就記得他當時投籃很掙扎，大家也都說他永遠就這個樣子了。

他是全聯盟第二小的球員，他會漸漸變好的。

儘管他確實掙扎了一段時間。

[–]76erssportsfan113 28 指標 3 天前

For how good he looked in college that is surprising. Not too alarming though, he"s 19 and not really ready physically yet.

他大學打得那麼好，現在確實有點出乎意料。但還不至於說是讓我吃了一驚吧，他才19歲，身體也沒有準備好。

[–]Knickstetsuoandkaneda 148 指標 3 天前

You mean to tell me that a raw, skinny, 19 year old is struggling in his rookie year? It"s only alarming depending on your expectations of Ingram"s ceiling. If you thought he was going to be the next Durant, well, you"re setting yourself up for disappointment.

你是說告訴我他是一個又糙又瘦掙扎在新秀賽季的19歲少年會讓我震驚么？這要取決於你對他上限的期望了。你要是覺得他是下一個杜蘭特，那你怕是要失望了。

[–]Pistonszepg[S] 192 指標 3 天前

he was a #2 pick, so expectations are high

他可是榜眼，期望高點不是很正常么。

[–]Lakerssstizzle 102 指標 3 天前

Both comments are fair here. As a Lakers fan, I get that we see "flashes" and all... but what excuse is there for missing wide open shots when you"re drafted for being a good shooter? It"s not like he"s being physically bullied when he"s wide open. His form isn"t good and he likely has to reconstruct it this summer. That"s concerning to me.

不管是噴的還是吹的，都說得很有道理。作為一個湖蜜，我們確實都看到了一些閃光點啥的……但當我們選你的並期盼你能成為一個優質射手的時候，你連空位都投不進可怎麼解釋？空位的時候可沒人會用肉體欺負你。他投籃姿勢不穩定，看起來需要今年夏天重新開發一下。說實在話我還挺擔心的。

[–][WAS] John Walllivefreeordont 41 指標 3 天前

Otto Porter was the same way. I kind of doubted him after his rookie year but he has come along more than I hoped for

波特也是啊，新秀賽季打完我懷疑過他，但他現在比我預期的要強多啦。

[–]Hawksdaeve 18 指標 3 天前

Not a bad comp really. Ingram has a touch more ceiling/projectability but they could end up being pretty similar

這個比方打得不錯，英格拉姆可能上限更高一點，但最後這倆人可能會差不多。

[–][WAS] John Walllivefreeordont 12 指標 3 天前

Otto is also capable of playing small ball 4 and is more of a swing guy than a 1 on 1 player. But honestly I haven"t seen much of Ingram since Duke

波特在小球陣容里可以打4號位，同時一對一又可以無限換防。但說實在話，英格拉姆離開杜克之後我就沒看到他有什麼好的表現了。

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