美國球迷熱議德克和馬龍誰是更出色的球員|老司機最強國際球員？

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美國球迷熱議德克和馬龍誰是更出色的球員|老司機最強國際球員？

Who is the better player all time, Karl Malone or Dirk?

生涯而言，馬龍和德克誰是更好的球員？

[–]Cooljo 157 指標 7 天前

The vast majority of fans here (myself included) did not see Malone work in his prime. Only the tail end of his career, if that.

Also, personal bias comes into play as well. People love Dirk as a person and hate what Malone"s done off the court.

這裡絕大多數的球迷朋友們（也包括我自己）都沒見過馬龍的巔峰。如果有看過馬龍的話，也都只是抓住了他生涯的尾巴而已。

同時，對於個人的看法也會有影響，大家都喜歡司機的為人，而且都討厭馬龍場外的那些破事。

[–][OKC] Michael PhelpsLast_Christmas 16 指標 7 天前

Honestly I think Dirk has a case for 2nd best PF ever behind Duncan.

People will point to Malone"s longevity and regular season stats, but Dirk"s playoff numbers are way better than Malone"s. Better BPM, WS/48, turnover %, 23.8 PER vs. 21.1 PER, .577 TS% vs. .526 TS%

說實在話，我覺得司機可以競爭一波鄧肯身後歷史第二大前的位置。

大家都會吹馬龍的生涯長度和常規賽數據，但司機的季後賽數據比馬龍強多了。更好的真實效率值，每48分鐘勝利貢獻值，失誤率，23.8的per值對上馬龍21.1的per值，以及57.7%的真實命中率對上52.6%的真實命中率。

[–]Bulletsburnerfret 29 指標 7 天前

I"m an old who saw them both, and I"d rather have Dirk, based on his offensive versatility and reliability.

If you look at Malone"s Playoff numbers, he"s a guy that could be bothered and slowed down by the other great bigs of his era. There are a lot of sub-50% FG playoff runs.

Dirk at his peak was a more consistent and trustworthy offensive force, IMO. Malone didn"t have anything like the one-foot Dirk turnaround in crunch time.

我是兩個人的球都看過的中老年球迷，但我也會選司機，因為司機的進攻兼具多樣性和可靠性。

如果你看看馬龍的季後賽數據，他總會被那個年代的其他大個子巨星牽制住。他有很多命中率不足50%的季後賽對決。

巔峰司機更有持續性，在進攻端也更可靠，在我看來。馬龍在關鍵時刻拿不出像司機金雞獨立那樣的一招絕技。

[–]PistonsPapaPapadopoulos2 15 指標 7 天前

This. Malone kind of earned a reputation as someone who really couldn"t perform in the playoffs. I know this sub SOMETIMES overrates what Dirk has done in the playoffs, but this is not the case here. Dirk would just ball out in some really important playoff runs (like 2011 SAS).

這個沒問題，馬龍給別人留下了季後賽無作為的印象。我知道大家有時候會誇大司機在季後賽里的貢獻，但並不總是這麼個情況。司機在一些非常重要的季後賽對決里確實是能做出關鍵表現的。

[–]Bulletsburnerfret 8 指標 7 天前

I also think that Dirk is a guy who would fit in on any team and succeed, and would make the guys around him better through floor spacing and pick-and-pop.

Malone"s success was a product of an offense completely geared around him. He played in the perfect system for him to get buckets (and with the perfect complementary superstar).

我還覺得司機可以融合進任何一支球隊並且取得成功，同時還可以依靠自己拉開空間，以及擋拆後拉到三分線外的打法，讓隊友變得更好。

馬龍的成功是進攻完全圍繞他展開的結果。他處在一個完美的可以幫助他得分的體系里（同時 跟他搭檔的是和他完美互補的另一個超級巨星）。

[–][PHI] Aaron McKieMichael_Watts 62 指標 7 天前

Malone. Averaged 25 and 10 over the course of his entire career. Incredibly consistent. Also a better defender and was overall more dominant. The Stockton/Malone PnR was unstoppable.

我站馬龍。整個職業生涯場均25+10。表現非常有連續性。同時防守也更強，整體表現也更有統治力。斯托克頓和馬龍的擋拆沒人能擋。

[–]Zihuatenejo[S] 20 指標 7 天前

No doubt Malone had better stats, I just think the fact that Dirk was able to revolutionize the big man position and win a championship with not a whole lot of stars around him makes him greater

毫無疑問馬龍的數據更好看，但我覺得司機給大個子球員的位置帶來了革新，同時在身邊沒有巨星堆積的情況下拿下了一個冠軍，這些都讓他更偉大。

[–][PHI] Aaron McKieMichael_Watts 36 指標 7 天前

Dirk did win a championship without other stars, but that"s underselling how well built that Mavs team was. I don"t think its a coincidence that Dirk"s only championship just so happens to be the only year he played with Tyson Chandler, who was an elite rim protector at the time.

司機確實在沒有其他巨星的情況下拿到了一個冠軍，但是這樣就又忽視了當時的那支小牛建隊 的合理。我覺得司機在跟錢德勒搭檔的唯一一個賽季就拿到冠軍一定不是個巧合，當時的錢德勒還是個精英級的護框者。

[–]Bulletsburnerfret 8 指標 7 天前

Flip it -- does Malone get to the Finals with either of those Mavs teams?

And do the Jazz dropoff that much with Dirk instead of Malone? What does Dirk average running pick and pop with Stockton 30x a game?

這種問題換個角度來問——馬龍帶隨便一年的小牛陣容能不能進決賽？

或者說把馬龍換成司機的話爵士真的會退步很多麼？如果司機一場可以和斯托克頓打30多次擋拆又會是怎樣的一個場均數據？

[–]PistonsPapaPapadopoulos2 10 指標 7 天前

Chandler won the DPOY the very next year. Terry balled the fuck out, too. He shot and made more threes (on a better percentage), and he just shot better overall than Dirk while averaging 18 ppg. Marion also shot really well and average almost 14 ppg. Jason Kidd played 37 minutes a game in the Finals and still had over 6 assists per game; he was still a really good defender against opposing guards and shot 43% from three taking almost five shots a game.

錢德勒在接下來的一個賽季拿到了最佳防守球員。特里那個賽季也是爆了一波種。他進了更多的三分（命中率比平時高），而且在命中率比司機好的情況下場均拿到18分。馬里昂當時命中率也不錯，場均也有14分吧。基德在總決賽里場均上場37分鐘而且每場還能拿下超過6次助攻；他防守對方後衛也是很不錯，一場射差不多5個三分，命中率也高達43%。

[–]MavericksJoonypoo 7 指標 7 天前*

Yes, he did. He was also better the very next year.

是的沒錯。而且他之後一個賽季打得還更好了。

[–]BullsWowbagger1 17 指標 7 天前*

Considering that some people have Malone over Duncan I don"t think I can say Dirk is ahead of Malone IMO. I don"t have Malone over Duncan though I have engaged in heated debates in this sub over putting Duncan ahead of him.

Malone was a monster back in the day and might even be underrated by this community.

考慮到有些人還在說馬龍比鄧肯厲害，我不太敢說司機可以排在馬龍前面。但我也不會把馬龍放在鄧肯前頭，之前在一個帖子里我們激烈討論過這個事。

馬龍當時簡直是頭怪獸，而且很有可能被現在的球迷低估了。

[–][PHO] Amar"e Stoudemiretheangrylobster 8 指標 7 天前

No way Malone is over Duncan.

馬龍比鄧肯強？不存在的。

[–]LakersIsoulated28 47 指標 7 天前

Malone, 2nd all time leading scorer.

馬龍，歷史得分榜第二名，你，值得擁有。

[–][UTA] Greg Ostertagsoapy_goatherd 26 指標 7 天前

Lol I love Dirk, but he"s over 7000 points below Malone"s total.

哈哈哈我愛司機，但是他總得分比馬龍少了7000分呢。

[–]Pacersbananaboatfloat22 7 指標 7 天前

Malone was much better and more dominant. Dirk is more unique via being one of the first great international players and stretching the floor. Also Dirk won a ring, but if Malone played at a time without Jordan he likely would have one too (yes he had a couple years when Jordan retired, still).

Also Malone is a terrible person.

馬龍更強也更有統治力。但是司機更獨特而且是第一批優秀的國際球員，同時也是第一批能夠拉 開空間的大個子。而且司機還有一枚戒指，但是如果馬龍活在一個沒有喬丹的年代的話，他也應該有一枚戒指的（不過他倒是在喬丹退役之後也打了幾年）。

還有馬龍這個人真是爛透了。

[–][WAS] Antawn JamisonLazrgator13 20 指標 7 天前

Dirk. He won as the number 1 option with no other all-stars

我站司機。他在隊里沒有其他全明星的情況下，作為球隊進攻的第一選擇拿下了冠軍。

[–]Celticsfdahood 10 指標 7 天前

I think he is a better soccer player, so there is that as well.

我覺得司機足球技術也更強，不要忘了這點。

[–][WAS] Antawn JamisonLazrgator13 6 指標 7 天前

Always an important statistic

這條太重要了，千萬不能忘。

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