你願意給小托馬斯頂薪嗎？美球迷分歧很大，濕乎乎能達成一致嗎？

美國JRS之聲

你願意給小托馬斯頂薪嗎？美球迷分歧很大，濕乎乎能達成一致嗎？

Would you offer a max to Isaiah Thomas? (self.nba)

你會給小托馬斯頂薪嗎？

His contract isn"t up this year, but if it was would you offer him a max? just interested to see how much people value him

今年他的合同還沒到期，但是如果到期了的話，你會給他頂薪嗎？只是好奇，看看在人們心中他的價值有多高。

[–]Cavalierspjoneill15 611 指標 14小時前

Gotta pay off my student loans first, but I would think about it.

首先我得把自己的學生貸款還了，然後我會考慮一下的。

[–]Kingsdlitt 127 指標 14小時前

Nah, I"d trade him for a Summer League role player.

啊哈，我不會給他頂薪的，我會拿他去換個夏季聯賽的角色球員。

[–]Celticskvng_stunner 43 指標 11小時前

AND a second round pick

再加上一個二輪簽。

[–]Celticsbzrascal 25 指標 8小時前

Top 59 protected

前59順位保護的。

[–]Heatjaydontcare 605 指標 15小時前

Does he deserve it? Probably.

Do I give it to him if I"m a GM of a team other than the Celtics? No.

小托馬斯配得上頂薪嗎？可能吧。

如果我是除了綠凱外其他球隊的總經理的話，我是不會給他頂薪的。

[–]Hawkskevinxv 148 指標 14小時前

I feel you on that, but if his contract ended this year, someone would give that man a max.

我和你的意見一致，但是如果他的合同在今年到期，肯定會有人願意給這傢伙頂薪。

[–]Celticssaeedg1377 182 指標 14小時前*

that"s the thing. people always say "oh, do you really wanna keep Isaiah? he"s gonna demand a max!"

well, the market dictates a player"s value. and if the market isn"t willing to give him a max, then he"s not gonna get a max. period. He"s not gonna get a max if other teams aren"t gonna compete with Danny and offer a max

你說到點子上了，人們總是會說「哇，你們綠凱真的想留下小托馬斯嗎？他可是會要頂薪的！」

但是一個球員的價值是由市場決定的，如果市場不願意給他頂薪的話，那麼他就不會得到頂薪。除非有其他的球隊以頂薪的報價去和安吉競爭，否則他就拿不到頂薪。

[–]SpursHomesteadrunner 160 指標 14小時前

I just takes one desperate team. It isn"t like 15 teams need to want to pay him the max.

只有處於絕望中的球隊會願意給他頂薪，這不像是說所有的球隊都願意給他頂薪這樣的事情。

[–]jiggaboojayme 70 指標 12小時前

The pelicans would give him a max

鵜鶘會願意給他頂薪的。

[–]BulletsMarmaladeFugitive 50 指標 11小時前*

That is actually a very interesting place for him, they have solid defensive bigs and guards to help neutralize his weaknesses.

實際上鵜鶘對小托馬斯來說是個非常不錯的地方，他們有著防守能力非常強的大個子和後衛，這樣能夠彌補小托馬斯的不足。

[–]PistonssubMJM 9 指標 10小時前

There are a lot of teams in the league that have trouble drawing stars that would love to have a guy who is capable of going for scoring titles. I don"t think his height or defense would hinder any of those feelings.

目前聯盟里有很多對巨星吸引力不足的球隊都會願意給這個有能力競爭得分王的傢伙頂薪。我不認為小托馬斯的身高會阻礙這些球隊對於他的渴望。

[–]Cavaliersweakvitalsigns 55 指標 13小時前

Seems like something the Kings would do.

看起來這是國王願意做的一件事。

[–]76ersbjamil1 65 指標 12小時前

That"s an interesting thought, I feel like he"d look great in a Kings uniform

老哥這個想法很穩，我感覺在他穿上國王球衣後，看起來會非常棒。

[–]Celticsbaseketball 168 指標 12小時前

I did a quick photoshop.

我完成了一幅PS速寫。

[–]Lakersballamanjr 73 指標 12小時前

wow you"re really good at this

哇你可真擅長PS啊。

[–]Celticspriestkalim 48 指標 12小時前

Obvious fake. I can tell by the pixels.

這圖一看就是P的，從像素上就能看出來。

[–]Celticsrveets1416 30 指標 12小時前

But you screwed up the number so it cant be that realistic

而且你把號碼也搞錯了，所以這不可能是真的。

[–]Celticsbaseketball 19 指標 11小時前

I didn"t have time so I just took some other Kings player and pasted his head.

我沒有多少時間去完成這圖的PS，所以我就直接拿了一名國王球員的照片，然後把小托馬斯的腦袋P了上去。

[–]Celticsjulzthemadman691 5 指標 11小時前

He doesn"t look happy to be wearing a Kings uniform.

看上去穿著國王球衣的小托馬斯並不太開心啊。

[–]Warriorsraorao 40 指標 13小時前

just takes one team, and brooklyn would happily max him out.

只要有一支球隊願意給他頂薪，他就能拿到頂薪，而且籃網會很樂意的拿出這份報價。

[–]Bulletsragtime_sam 28 指標 12小時前

It"s always brooklyn

為什麼總是籃網。

[–]CavaliersAmbrosita 8 指標 11小時前

The new york teams are always in fierce competition for being the most incompetent franchise.

紐約的球隊總是在誰是更爛的球隊這項成就上進行著激烈的競爭。

[–]EastGoldenSpikes 13 指標 12小時前

I dont know here guys...this dude is dropping 40 point games like they"re nothing right now. You are severely underestimating how badly some teams need a scorer. I guarantee someone throws a max at him.

我不理解你們所說的這些話...這傢伙現在拿個40分就跟玩兒一樣，你們也完全低估了一些球隊對於得分手急切渴望的程度。我向你們保證會有球隊給他頂薪的。

[–]NetsBrookLINNets 8 指標 13小時前

One or two teams in the league will be willing to offer a max. And it only takes one. 20 teams can value him as a $15 mill a year player but that doesn"t matter as long as one or two are willing to offer a max. Now that team"s probably not gonna be as good a situation as the Celtics so you can get away with paying him a little less but he"ll get pretty close to a max either way.

現在聯盟里會有一到兩支球隊願意給他頂薪，而且只需要一支就夠了。就算其他20支球隊都覺得小托馬斯只是一名年薪1500萬的球員，只要有一支或者兩支願意給他頂薪，這就無所謂了。其他的球隊可能沒有綠凱這麼適合他，條件也沒有綠凱好，所以凱爾特人可以稍微少給他一點錢，不過他肯定會拿到近乎頂薪的合同。

[–]KingsBigGreekMike 7 指標 12小時前

We would offer a max

（國王蜜）我們願意給頂薪。

[–]LakersKovonMolebock 11 指標 13小時前

Mark Cuban will offer a max

馬克-庫班會願意給頂薪的。

[–]Celticsbostonbruins922 109 指標 13小時前

Let me see what he does in the playoffs this year then I"ll get back to ya.

讓我看看今年季後賽這傢伙能打出什麼樣的表現後，再做定奪。

[–]76ersIhavenocomplaints 13 指標 11小時前

Hypothetical: They lose in the ECF versus the Cavs in 5. IT balls out in the first two rounds (like 30 ppg average) and cools off in the ECF (like 22 ppg).

假想的情況：最終騎士在東決里用五場比賽淘汰了綠凱。小托馬斯在前兩輪里打出了超神的表現（類似場均30分吧）之後在東決中稍微有些退步（類似場均22分吧）。

[–]Celtics13143 14 指標 9小時前

Give him the max. We already know we can"t get past the Cavs as is. If we actually make it there, then that just proves what we currently think we know: we"re still one star player away from being a proper contender.

（凱蜜）給他頂薪。我們已經知道了就憑現在的配置球隊是不打不贏騎士的。如果我們真的在東決中輸給了騎士，那麼就證明了事實就是我們現在認為的這樣：我們離強力的冠軍爭奪者還差一名球星的距離。

[–][POR] C.J. McCollumkevkron123 86 指標 11小時前

I feel like I"m taking crazy pills reading these comments, of course he is worth a max contract. People are saying he"s 28 so he"ll drop off soon, but is there any indication he would drop off at 31?? His game isn"t particularly predicated on athleticism and he"s averaging almost 30 ppg!

In a market where Chandler Parsons is a max, Isaiah Thomas is absolutely a max. r/nba severely overrates defense on this sub, especially at the pg position where it"s proven to have the least impact. You have to get the right players to pair around him, sure, but he"s absolutely a max player. Thank god none of us are GMs.

我感覺讀你們的這些評論快要讓我發瘋了，小托馬斯當然是值得一份頂薪的啊。人們都說他已經28了，所以很快狀態就會下滑，但是現在有任何的跡象告訴你他在31歲時就一定會下滑嗎？？他的比賽方式並不特別依賴於運動能力，而且他現在場均幾乎達到30分了。

在一個錢德勒-帕森斯都能拿頂薪的時代，小托馬斯毫無疑問是一名頂薪的球員。這個論壇里顯著的誇大了他在防守端的劣勢，尤其是他只是一名控衛，而控衛的防守對於比賽的影響則是最小的。雖然你肯定需要為他配置合適的球員，但是他絕對值得頂薪。謝天謝地我們中沒有一人是總經理。

[–]Celticsd00der 11 指標 10小時前

I"m with you man. Second highest scoring in the league in a year where everyone is having insane offensive years? Nah, he"s a defensive liability. Not worth the money. What the hell.

Everyone likes to think they would do what is most pragmatic for their team, but you know what happens when you do that? You give IT away for garbage and watch as he flourishes somewhere else (Hello Kings and Suns fans!).

我同意你。在幾乎每個球星都在進攻端打出瘋狂表現的這個賽季中，他依然場均得分聯盟第二？「哎，他是個防守累贅，不值得這麼多錢」。這都特么是什麼鬼？

每個人都覺得自己會為球隊做最實在的操作，但是你們知道事實會是什麼嗎？你放走了小托馬斯，換來了一堆垃圾，然後看著他在其他的球隊大殺四方（國王，太陽的球迷們，你們還好嗎？）。

[–]76ersShiningWizard22 23 指標 9小時前

Thank God someone is talking some sense. The guy is a legit mvp candidate and avging 30 points a game and 6 assists. Its like Reddit thinks they can predict the future and thinks he"s guarantee to fall off in a few years.

If everyone judged players based off what they looked like then Steph curry doesn"t deserve max, Allen Iverson shouldn"t be hall of famer, and Kyle Lowry shouldn"t be an all star all because they don"t look like bron. If Thomas was 6feet4 or 6,5 but played 0 defense we would never have this convo. Fucking Chandler Parsons got a max and Thomas doesn"t? Is that a joke. Steve Nash wasn"t the apex of athleticism but played til his late 30s. Iverson was still an all star caliber player when he was on the nuggets.

It"s bs talk like this that made him the last pick of the draft and traded from the kings. People use his height as the ultimate factor as if height is directly correlated with skills.

謝天謝地總算有人說人話了。這傢伙是MVP有力的競爭者之一，場均30分外加6助攻。也就只有濕乎乎這個論壇能說出「我們已經預料到了未來，他絕對會下滑」這種話了。

如果每個人都只是用外表來評價一名球員的話，那麼庫里就不值頂薪，艾弗森則沒資格進名人堂，洛瑞也算不上全明星，都只是因為他們看上去不像勒布朗。如果小托馬斯有6尺4或者6尺5，同時完全不防守，那麼這樣的討論根本就不會發生。尼瑪的錢德勒-帕森斯都拿到了頂薪，你卻跟我講小托馬斯不值？這就是個笑話，納什的身體素質從來就不屬於最頂尖的那一批，他也一直打到了接近40歲的年紀。就算是掘金時期的艾弗森，也仍然是全明星級別的球員。

[–]Celticsceltsnshit 7 指標 8小時前

I agree with you overall, but I would argue his game is extremely dependent on athleticism.

He is crafty as hell and can shoot which means he"ll always be able to score, but his quickness and ability to simply leave people chasing thin air is what makes him truly special. A sizable step lost there would be the different from top 5 offensive player, to very good bench scorer.

Additionally, he has an insane vertical leap. He not only uses it outward to propel himself towards the rim like a cannon ball, but also upwards when he finds himself under the hoop to careen the ball in. Few players score as often when at peak leaping height than IT.

That being said, there"s no guarantee either of those will fall off dramatically during this contract. He"s a bit of freak and it is simply easier to stay healthy when your body is that small. I love him and would be in favor of maxing him.

總體上我同意你們的看法，但是有一點，小托馬斯的比賽實際上非常依賴於運動能力和身體素質。

他非常靈巧，而且能夠投籃，這就意味著他隨時都能夠得分。但是他的速度和那種一步甩開防守球員的能力才是讓他真正特別的地方。喪失第一步的速度，那麼就會是聯盟前五的得分手和不錯的板凳得分手之間差距。

另外，他擁有非常驚人的彈跳。這點不僅僅讓他能夠像加農炮一般去攻擊籃筐，同時當他身處籃筐下方時，也能幫助他把球放進。很少有球員在得分時的最大彈跳比小托馬斯跳得還要高。

這就是說，在簽了頂薪後你無法保證這兩項運動能力之一不會發生戲劇性的下滑。但是他現在就是只野獸，而且小個子的球員保持健康的難度也相對要小一些。我喜歡他，也願意給他頂薪。

[–][POR] Damian LillardOverratedDickPics 65 指標 16小時前

depends on for how many years honestly. If it"s a 3 year deal then yes I think. Any longer and those last few years will be baaad

關鍵在於合同有多長。如果是3年頂薪，那沒問題。任何比這個期限長的合同都會有些糟糕。

[–]gkm64 210 指標 15小時前

Extremely risky.

Very undersized player, who is already 28, and who would be 32-33 when that contract ends. Small players rarely age well in this league. And he plays no defense even now

He might get it because there really aren"t many players who deserve it, but objectively and without any context, you have to be crazy to do it.

風險非常大。

身材極端不足的球員，已經28歲了，當那份頂薪合同到期後他就已經32~33歲了，這個聯盟里小個子的球員從來就不會平穩的老去。而且他幾乎不防守。

他也許能拿到頂薪，因為像他這樣值得頂薪的球員確實不多，但是客觀上講，給他頂薪真的很瘋狂。

[–]Pacerscapnsouth 202 指標 14小時前

How many points does he have to score a game to get you to look past his height? How many in the 4th? I"ve been an IT fan since his bromance with Boogie, and I"ve been saying he should start since then, and everyone told me I was crazy. Now hes scoring 30 a game (10 of those in the 4th, an NBA record) with 6.5 assists, 3 rebounds and shooting 47-39-92? What the hell does he need to do? Score 50 a game?

The only reason he"s not in the MVP conversation is because Harden and Westbrook are having historic seasons. If you took those 2 guys out of the conversation, I"d still have to give it to Leonard over IT, but man its close.

他到底需要一場比賽再拿多少分才能讓你們忘了他的身高？具體到第四節呢？自從他在和表妹的搭檔中打出亮眼表現後我就被他圈粉了，從那時起我就說他應該首發，而你們都認為我瘋了。現在他場均30分了（第四節場均10分，創下了NBA記錄），外加6.5次助攻，3籃板，三項命中率47%-39%-92%？他特么究竟還需要做到什麼去證明自己？拿到50分嗎？

現在他不屬於MVP討論範圍內的唯一原因就是這賽季哈登和威少打出了歷史級別的賽季。如果剔除這兩個人，我還是會認為倫納德比他更值得MVP，但是小托馬斯絕對很接近。

[–]Celticsadamsamadamsam 55 指標 12小時前

It doesn"t matter, he is 5"9", at the end of the day that fact alone makes him the worst defender in the league getting real minutes. Come playoffs, teams will live with him getting 30, because they can roast him on the other end.

這都不重要，這傢伙身高5尺9，說到底這一點就能讓他在所有得到常規上場時間的球員中成為防守最差的那個。在季後賽里，就算他拿了30分，對手也能接受，因為他們會在防守端把他按在地上摩擦。

[–]TimberwolvesTdotGdot 16 指標 10小時前

That"s right. I love IT, sincerely, but his height is a thing. As you noted he"s already a horrible defender, and because he is so short he needs to rely a lot on athleticism to be able to be effective. He"s 27, about to be 28 in a few days, right at the point where athleticism starts to quickly decline. A hypothetical 5 year max keeps him until he"s 33. That"s when height seriously matters.

I get that dudes point - he"s basically at a 30 a game this year. That"s insane. His height obviously isn"t detracting from that. But there is going to be a point - soon - where he doesn"t get to the rim 10 times a game, and when he isn"t able to take the beating that comes with almost 9 FTA per game. He isn"t a pure point guard distributor, and while he"s at 39% on threes this season, over the course of his career he"s closer to 37%. I just don"t see how his game ages very well, partially because of his style of play, and partially because of his size.

All said, he"s good now so I think you have to sign him to a max and figure this stuff out later. But the Celtics need to think about this stuff and be ready to take a good trade if it"s there (which, obviously, I"m sure they have already considered all this).

正是這樣，我喜歡小托馬斯，但是他的身高確實是個問題。正如你注意到的，他已經是個非常糟糕的防守者了，因為他太矮了，他需要非常依賴自己的運動能力才能變得高效。他已經27了，馬上就28了，運動能力在這個節點上會急劇的下滑。一份假想的5年頂薪合同會一直持續到他33歲的時候，那時身高便會成為真正制約他的東西。

我理解上面那些人的想法——他現在確實場均30分。這非常瘋狂，但是這顯然不能把注意力從他的身高上移走。很快他就會達到這樣的節點——再也無法一場比賽攻擊籃筐10次，從而無法得到隨之而來的場均9次罰球。他也不能像一個純控衛那樣為球隊提供貢獻，儘管這賽季他的三分球命中率達到了39%，比生涯綜合的37%要好。但我真的看不出來他會平穩的老化，尤其是他現在這種打法和對身體的依賴。

總體來說，他現在很棒，所以你必須給他頂薪才能留下他，以後再去考慮上面這些東西。但是綠凱絕對現在就要考慮這些東西了，然後準備做出交易的操作了（顯然，我確信他們已經在考慮所有這些東西了）。

[–]gkm64 31 指標 13小時前

The only undersized player to lead a team to a championship was Isiah Thomas with the Pistons.

Maybe that name is charmed somehow, but there is a reason for that historical pattern -- the playoffs are just a different ball game.

Even Curry has been struggling in finals.

唯一身材不足卻帶領著球隊奪冠的小個子球員就是活塞的刺客托馬斯。

也許光是這個名字就非常有吸引力了，但是歷史上出現這樣的情況是有原因的——季後賽真的是完全不同的比賽。

就算強如庫里，在總決賽里也吃了虧。

[–]kmalice9 175 指標 13小時前

defense.

防守是個問題。

[–][BOS] Evan Turnerbillbrown96 36 指標 15小時前

Best case scenario the Celtics sign a max FA this year (rebounding, defensive center or a scorer). Dump low end players/salary (Zeller, Amir, Young) and capout by extending Isaiah (and Smart and Bradley) for max years but on a front loaded contract .

This cuts Isaiah"s contract considerably as he will be under the 25% vet max as opposed to the 30% vet max when his contract expires end of next season. Additionally this ALSO means Isaiah signs under a 1yr earlier cap jump (I think the jump from 2016-2017 to 2017-2018 is a 10+ mil jump). Front loading his contract just helps the Celtics once he starts declining.

現在對於凱爾特人來說最好的情況就是，今年簽下另外一個頂薪的自由球員（籃板，防守強力的中鋒或者得分手），甩掉板凳末端以及合同較小的球員（澤勒，阿米爾，楊），同時在工資帽外用頂薪和最高年限續約小托馬斯（和斯馬特，布拉德利），雖然很貴，但是能提前執行。

這會有效的降低小托馬斯的合同，因為今年他作為老將只能拿到工資帽25%的頂薪，而如果明年合同到期後再和他續約的話，這一數據將會變成30%。另外這也意味著小托馬斯是在工資帽大漲前的一年簽下的合同（我感覺2016-17賽季到2017-18賽季工資帽的提升將會是1000萬左右）。一旦小托馬斯出現下滑的跡象，提前續約便對凱爾特人有利。

[–][DAL] Steve Nashlandon34 71 指標 16小時前

I know r/NBA likes him a lot, he"s good player and fairly underrated, but I don"t think it"s wise to offer an undersized PG ~$30 mil/year when he"s 28

The league is PG heavy right now, granted there"s a short list of names ahead of IT but it"s not terribly difficult to find a passable PG in this league

我知道濕乎乎都非常喜歡他，他是小個子中非常棒的球員，但是我不認為給這個28歲身材不足的PG一年3000萬的頂薪是個明智的選擇。

現在聯盟里出現了控衛泛濫的局面，在小托馬斯身前還有一些其他的名字，但是在聯盟里找一個能傳球的控衛真的不難。

[–]Bulletsthricethefun 37 指標 14小時前

But people are fine with giving the max to 32 year old Lowry this summer?

那麼人們對於在夏天給32歲的洛瑞頂薪有任何不舒服的地方嗎？

[–][TOR] Terrence Rossredsnake1377 13 指標 12小時前

Low"s different. 1 he"s better, but his overall impact on the team won"t change much with age

that being said i"d probably max Isaiah

（猛龍蜜）洛瑞可不一樣，首先他更棒，另外他對球隊的總體影響不會隨著年輕增大而發生大的下滑。

話雖如此，我很可能還是會給小托馬斯頂薪。

[–]Celticsidegtev 26 指標 12小時前

I agree that Lowry contributes more to the team via defense and better playmaking, but don"t underestimate the impact of aging on small guards. I personally would not max out a 32 year old Lowry. Take a look at 34 year old Tony Parker.

我同意洛瑞在防守端和組織上對球隊的貢獻更多，但是不要小看了年齡對小後衛的影響，我個人是不會給32歲的洛瑞頂薪的，看看現在34歲的帕克吧。

[–]KhornKT 8 指標 16小時前

He"ll be 28 next few days. I think he doesnt have many years left to maintain this good. To be honest if his offensive game is decline by his less athleticism , he will be useless because of his size.

for 5-years max , I wouldn"t give it to him.

還有幾天小托馬斯就28了，我覺得他現在的狀態不會維持太久了。老實說他的進攻會隨著運動能力的下降而下滑，再加上他身材上的不足，到時他就幾乎沒啥用了。

所以對於5年頂薪這樣的合同，我是不會給他的。

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