利拉德27+5+6真實命中率58%卻無緣三陣，聯盟現在的球星有多強？

美國JRS之聲

利拉德27+5+6真實命中率58%卻無緣三陣，聯盟現在的球星有多強？

To put into perspective how crazy the star power is in todays league: Damian Lillard averaged 27/5/6 on 58 TS% and didnt make any of the All-NBA teams (self.nba)

為了讓大家知道現在聯盟里的球星究竟有多強：利拉德場均27/5/6，真實命中率58%，卻沒能進入NBA的任何一個最佳陣容。

Thats actually crazy! Numbers like that are usually second team at worst. 2016-17 was the year of crazy output it seems. The league is at such a great point in terms of starpower. So many great and exciting players.

這實際上非常瘋狂！像這樣的數據通常最差也得是個二陣了，看上去2016-17賽季便是球星們瘋狂輸出的一年，現在球星的威力在聯盟中已經達到了一個極端，太多出色和振奮人心的球員了。

[–]Blazers BandwagonDgeneratte 204 指標 21小時前

he only got 12 votes too.

而且利拉德只得到了12張票。

[–]Trail BlazersBirdunit 117 指標 20小時前

How Klay got more votes over him I"ll never understand

我永遠不明白為什麼克萊的得票數都比他多。

[–][POR] Geoff PetrieTheGourmet9 178 指標 21小時前

He"s the only player with those numbers to not make it in NBA history besides Harden last year

除了去年的哈登外，利拉德是歷史上唯一一個砍下這種數據卻沒能進入NBA最佳陣容的球員。

[–][POR] Patty Millsshickard 144 指標 15小時前

If Dame doesn"t get snubbed from something, did the season really happen?

如果利拉德哪個賽季沒有在某方面被冷落了，我都會懷疑賽季是不是真的開始了。

[–]Rockets BandwagonTheLordOfTheKappas 15 指標 15小時前

well already done for all star lol

哈哈哈，這賽季全明星已經冷落過他一次了。

[–][CLE] LeBron JamesFriendOfBrutus 2 指標 4小時前

Kind of like KAT averaging 25/12 with 54% shooting and not even getting noticed for any of the three teams.

有點像唐斯，場均25/12，命中率54%，卻一個最佳陣容也沒有進。

[–][LAL] Kobe BryantChampagnesoda 97 指標 21小時前

And he wasn"t even robbed or anything

關鍵利拉德今年在最佳陣容上並不是被搶劫了，或是其他什麼的。

[–]Trail Blazersforevereverforeverev 2 指標 14小時前

Yeah, when I double-checked the list he shouldn"t have made any of the teams. However, three guards ahead of him on the outside looking in... do not agree.

是的，當我反覆檢查了最佳陣容名單後，我發現利拉德並不該入選任何一個陣容。但是，在沒有入選的後衛中，有三個人的投票還領先他...這點就不能忍了。

[–]accountforjerk 52 指標 17小時前

Imo this is the biggest point to make. The guard position is super deep and it is pretty hard to say anyone of these guys could be switched out with Lillard. There are legit arguments for all.

在我看來，這才是最重要的一點，後衛線上深度太大了，你很難說利拉德能夠替換掉任何一個入選的後衛，他們都是非常合格的入選者。

[–]Warriorskevindlv 12 指標 14小時前

Same argument I have when people cry about Hayward and PG not being eligible for supermax contracts because they didn"t make All-NBA. Would you vote for either of them over Butler? I wouldn"t. Sorry guys, wing/forward is loaded these days. You have to be a center if you want to sneak your way into All-NBA.

當人們為海沃德和喬治因為沒能進入最佳陣容而無法獲得超級頂薪而抱怨時，我的觀點也是這樣的。你們會把他們中的任何一個人投到巴特勒前面嗎？我肯定是不會的。對不起老哥們，側翼/前鋒在現在的聯盟中太擁擠了，如果你想偷偷溜進最佳陣容的話，你得是個中鋒才行。

[–]Lakers BandwagonCallToBall 108 指標 21小時前

I think it shows how deep the guard position is and how offensively driven this league is.

Those numbers would have been monster a few years ago, but now they"re just "good." That baffles me

我覺得這證明了聯盟中現在後衛線上的深度有多大，而且進攻偏向有多強。

這些數據放在幾年前簡直就是怪物般的存在，而現在它們只是「出色」罷了。這讓我感到困惑。

[–]Rockets BandwagonLordCarlos23 66 指標 19小時前

Those numbers would make you win the MVP 6-7 years ago.

利拉德這個數據能在6-7年前拿到MVP。

[–]KingsGhostnappa4 29 指標 17小時前

Arent those better numbers than Rose"s MVP?

他的數據難道沒有羅斯MVP賽季時的數據強嗎？

[–]BullsLangeloh 102 指標 17小時前

Rose: 25/7.7/4.1 on 44.5/33.2/85.8 splits.

Dame: 27/5.9/4.9 on 44.4/37/89.5 splits.

Bulls won 62 games though, which is a big reason Rose won.

羅斯：場均25分/7.7助攻/4.1籃板，命中率分別為44.5/33.2/85.8。

利拉德：場均27分/5.9助攻/4.9籃板，命中率分別為44.4/37/89.5。

但是當年公牛贏了62場比賽，這也是羅斯拿到MVP一個非常重要的原因。

[–]Wizards Bandwagonlivefreeordont 21 指標 20小時前

Harden last year was better

去年的哈登更加出色。

[–]Jiramisu 8 指標 16小時前

Yup, by a decent amount too. Not crazy huge, but 27 -> 29 points and 6 -> 7.5 assists is often a pretty difficult leap to make.

Harden was 29/6/7.5 with a TS percentage of 59.8%

是的，哈登確實要出色一些，儘管數據看上去沒有很大的差別，但是場均27分到29分，場均6助攻到7.5助攻之間通常都存在著非常難以越過的鴻溝。

哈登去年場均27/6/7.5，真實命中率59.8%。

[–]Warriorsshualton 1223 指標 21小時前

Guard position is the deepest it"s ever been

後衛位置上的深度是前所未有的。

[–]Pelicanserldn123 847 指標 21小時前

Point guard only.

Shooting guard is the weakest position in the league by far and possibly in it"s worst state ever considering how great it"s been in the past.

只是控衛是這樣。

得分後衛是目前聯盟中最薄弱的位置，考慮到以前這個位置上曾經多麼興盛，現在可能是歷史上分衛位置最差的時代。

[–]Knicksunc54 49 指標 16小時前

This comes after the 2000s when it was arguably at its strongest.

Kobe, Allen Iverson, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Dwyane Wade, Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili, Michael Redd, Joe Johnson, Jerry Stackhouse, Brandon Roy, etc.

現在這種情況發生在新世紀的前十年以後，當時毫無疑問分衛這個位置達到了史上最強。

科比，艾弗森，卡特，麥迪，韋德，雷-阿倫，吉諾比利，里德，喬-約翰遜，傑里-斯塔克豪斯，羅伊等等。

[–]DigitalDashSixers 1393 指標 21小時前

That"s cause all the good SG turned into point guards

這是因為所有好的分衛都去打控衛了。

[–]Wizards Bandwagonaoifhasoifha 38 指標 19小時前

And also guys who might once have been moved up to SG because of their play style are now being kept at PG since team ball movement has overtaken the old school ball-control PG in popularity. Guys like Kyrie or Dame or even Westbrook earlier in his career would probably have become undersized SGs 20 years ago.

還有就是那些在以前本會因為自己打球風格而被移去SG位置上的球員，現在都被留在PG位置上，因為球隊整體轉移球的受歡迎度超過了老派的控球型PG打法。放20年前，像歐文，利拉德，甚至是威少這樣的球員，在他們生涯早期都會被定義為體型較小的SG。

[–][CHI] Michael JordanBlackMathNerd 17 指標 21小時前

Mainly because the best SGs also became the best ball handlers so they"re now PGs

主要是因為現在最棒的SG也變成了最棒的持球者，所以他們現在便成為PG了。

[–]Pelicanserldn123 281 指標 21小時前

Well yeah the top 2 (Harden and Butler) changed position, but still, looking at the actual guys listed at SG now it"s really weak.

是的，聯盟前2的得分後衛（哈登和巴特勒）都改變了自己的位置，但是就算包含這些實際上註冊為分衛的球員，這個位置上也很弱。

[–][MIN] Zach LaVineSherspockHolmes 212 指標 20小時前

Agreed The top three/four (Klay, Harden, Butler, DeRozan) could"ve carried the position until guys like McCollum, Beal, and Bradley fully reached their primes, but with half of them switching, it became such a young position.

同意，本來分衛上前3或前4的球員（克萊，哈登，巴特勒，德羅贊）能夠繼續發揚這個位置的榮光，直到像麥科勒姆，比爾和布拉德利這樣的球員完全達到自己的巔峰，但是隨著一半最頂級的分衛都轉換了位置，現在這個位置就變得非常年輕了。

[–][GSW] Andre Iguodalamathmage 10 指標 15小時前

These days SGs are either PGs lacking some element of a PG"s skillset, or they"re small SFs.

現在的SG要麼就是那些基本功不太好的PG，或者就是體型較小的SF。

[–]FarFromClever 0 指標 17小時前

Klay is better than Jimmy in my opinion.

我認為克萊比巴特勒出色一些。

[–][CHA] Baron DavisHello_Dawl 106 指標 16小時前

Jimmy is capable of being the first option on a good team. Not a contender, but a good team. Kay is not a first option guy. Not even close

巴特勒能夠在一支強隊里作為第一選擇，儘管不是爭冠的隊伍，但是絕對是一支強隊。克萊則不是一個能作為第一選擇的球員，他倆差的很遠。

[–]Knickscoldpleigh 105 指標 21小時前*

There are so few now Derozan

Butler (Moved to SF)

Harden (Moved to PG)

Thompson

Wade(Old)

McCollum

Half of the PGs in the league are scorers and just PGs by name See: Kyrie Irving and Isaiah Thomas

現在分衛真是太少了

德羅贊

巴特勒（移動到了SF）

哈登（移動到了PG）

克萊

韋德（老了）

麥科勒姆

現在聯盟里一半的PG都是得分手，只是頂著控衛的帽子罷了：歐文，小托馬斯。

[–]Pacers BandwagonDietcereal 33 指標 19小時前

PG was a shooting guard when we drafted him.

步行者蜜：當我們剛剛選中喬治的時候，他還是個分衛。

[–]Raptorslekobe_rose 154 指標 17小時前

Even Paul George started out as an oversized SG and grew into an oversized SF/PF. Gallinari too but he defines the word injured.

就算是想保羅-喬治這種一開始被定義為大號SG的球員，現在也變成了大號的SF/PF，加里納利也是這樣，只不過他定義了傷病的含義。

[–]Bullsjkalltheway 10 指標 19小時前

to be fair, Jimmy started out playing the 3 and moved to the 2 to accommodate the Bulls at the time. He probably moved back after Wade came by, but his best position might be at the 2

講道理來說，巴特勒一開始是打小前鋒的，但是為了順應公牛的打法，移動到了2號位。可能在韋德到來之後他又回到了小前鋒的位置，但是最適合他的位置應該還是2號位。

[–]RocketsHyperactivity786 3 指標 16小時前

Being an elite scorer isn"t as useful as running an offense. Shooting guards thrived when in the defense hevavy early 2000s when hand checking plus zone made efficiency extra hard and the weather right after when those scorers, for a short time, just could go loose against weaker defenses

現在作為一個頂尖的得分手並沒有梳理進攻來得有用。分衛是在2000年早期那個防守嚴密的時代下興盛起來的，當時handcheck加上區域聯防讓高效的得分變得異常艱難，而這些得分手們能在面對稍微薄弱防守的那短短一段時間內就打出爆發性的得分輸出。

[–]WarriorsYellowBaboon 37 指標 21小時前

PG and SF so deep right now. 5/6 for both positions in all nba teams (if you include Harden as a PG) and thats not including guys who just missed out like CP3, PG and Hayward.

現在PG和SF這兩個位置的深度都太驚人了，最佳陣容中有5/6的球員都來自於這兩個位置（如果你把哈登算作PG的話），而且這還不包括沒有入選的球員，比如保羅，喬治和海沃德。

[–]RaptorsSamiMadeMeDoIt 413 指標 21小時前

Deandre Jordan over Towns is ridiculous lol

小喬丹壓過唐斯入選最佳陣容就很扯淡了，哈哈哈。

[–]LakersDrewby99 140 指標 21小時前

boogie too

還有壓過考辛斯也很扯淡。

[–]Pistons Bandwagonchubbs40 70 指標 21小時前

him over boogie is less of an issue than him over kat and gasol

boogie puts up better counting stats but i definitely think gasol is a better defender and facilitator and overall a better center

小喬丹壓過考辛斯入選比他壓過唐斯和小加索爾入選問題小得多。

考辛斯的數據更好看，但是我絕對認為小加索爾是個更出色的防守者和組織者，從而整體上是更出色的中鋒。

[–]Raptorsarizona_ice 5 指標 12小時前

Gasol brought his injured-ass team to the playoffs

小加索爾把他傷兵滿營的球隊帶進了季後賽。

[–]TimberwolvesBig_Brudder 5 指標 8小時前

Towns:

25.1/12.3/2.7/0.7/1.3/.618 TS%

Lillard:

27.0/4.9/5.9/0.9/0.3/.586 TS%

唐斯：

場均25.1/12.3/2.7/0.7/1.3，真實命中率0.618。

利拉德：

場均27.0/4.9/5.9/0.9/0.3，真實命中率0.586。

[–]NBAChaotic-Catastrophe 15 指標 20小時前

KAT was a bigger snub. Damian wasn"t better than any of the guards who made it, but KAT was absolutley better than Jordan.

唐斯絕對受到了非常大的冷落。利拉德並沒有比任何一個入選的後衛強，但是唐斯顯然比小喬丹要出色。

[–]Maverickslawrencecgn 17 指標 20小時前

More like how guard and offense friendly the rules have become. All these combo guards putting up insane numbers would have totally different resumes 10-15 years back.

這更像是聯盟中後衛的變革和規則的偏進攻化造成的結果，現在所有這些打出驚人數據的雙能衛們在10-15年之前可能會有著完全不同的表現。

[–]Warriorsburritoboy_ 25 指標 21小時前

Guards were lit this year

今年後衛們都著火了。

[–]Wizards BandwagonNotsdlog 36 指標 18小時前

Mike Conley didn"t get a single vote

康利一票都沒得到。

[–]DowntownJohnBrown 18 指標 18小時前

And as much as I love the guy, he probably didn"t deserve one.

雖然我非常喜歡這個傢伙，但是他也許不值得任何一票。

[–]Grizzlies BandwagonWehavecrashed 73 指標 17小時前

Then neither did Kyrie but he got 14.

這樣說的話，那麼歐文也不應該得到任何票數，然而他有14票。

[–]TimberwolvesChiefWiggins22 71 指標 17小時前

Kyrie"s game is constantly overrated. Dude"s a stud, but not on the same tier as Steph, CP3, Harden, Wall, Westbrook, and Dame.

歐文的比賽經常被高估，這傢伙是個球星，但是並不是和庫里，保羅，哈登，沃爾，威少和利拉德一個檔次的球星。

[–]Trail Blazerspinwheelpride 39 指標 17小時前

Agreed, but Kyrie"s best is scary good. It just doesn"t happen as often as these other guys

同意，但是歐文發揮出色的時候非常可怕，只是發生的頻率並沒有上面這些傢伙們高罷了。

[–]Supersonicstempestuousduke 6 指標 14小時前

I can"t tell if players are better today than they were 15 years ago, or if there are just enough changes in the game that we need to be better at evaluating how much inflation there is. Is Dame a crazy good player that got unlucky in playing among even better players? Or is he just a very good player who is playing in a league that puts up crazy numbers compared to 15 years ago?

我不知道是球員們真的比15年之前強了，還是說比賽的變化足夠大，從而我們需要更好的去評估究竟這些數據中有多少通脹了。利拉德究竟是不是一個非常出色的球員，只是在和更出色球員的評比中不太走運？還是說他只是在一個相比15年前打出瘋狂數據的聯盟中打球的出色球員？

[–]Raptorsmoaroracomedy 52 指標 21小時前

Which helps explain why there are people who say LeBron is better than Jordan. Jordan dominated the league better, but LeBron dominates a better league.

這也幫助解釋了為什麼有很多人說勒布朗比喬丹強，喬丹對聯盟的統治力更強，但是勒布朗則統治了一個更強的聯盟。

[–]WarriorsnewBreed 81 指標 17小時前

That"s an argument, but saying it like it"s fact is ridiculous.

The frontcourts of the 90"s would crush, while the guards are deeper now. But it"s truly a different game, both in rules and philosophy, so it"s become really difficult to compare the two eras.

這個說法有道理，但是單純這樣說就很扯淡了。

90年代的前場能夠碾壓現在的前場球員，不過現在的後衛深度更大。但是不管是在規則還是比賽哲學上，現在和過去都有著極大的不同，所以相比兩個時代是非常困難的。

[–]Warriorseggzecutor 18 指標 17小時前

Hard to judge if the league is better when just looking at the numbers. Harden and Westbrook filled the stat sheet more than anyone else in the regular season and those guys are notorious for taking defensive plays off. The 90"s also had some of the greatest bigs to ever play the game with Robinson, Malone, Hakeem, Barkley, Shaq, Ewing, etc..

當你只看這些數據的時候，很難評價說現在的聯盟就比以前強了。哈登和威少在常規賽里的數據比任何其他人都要恐怖，但是他們也因為不防守而臭名昭著。而90年代也有很多歷史上最偉大的大個子：羅賓遜，馬龍，大夢，巴克利，沙克，尤因等等...

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