美球迷热议新赛季联盟前十小前锋！保罗-乔治与字母哥孰强孰弱？

美球迷热议新赛季联盟前十小前锋！保罗-乔治与字母哥孰强孰弱？

Top 10 Small Forwards coming into the 17-18 season? (self.nba)

来预测一波2017-2018赛季联盟前十的小前锋吧？

楼主先来拍一下自己心目中的十佳小前锋

1.    勒布朗-詹姆斯。不需要更多解释了吧。

2.    凯文-杜兰特。KD和科怀-伦纳德在防守端的差距还不足以弥补他们俩在进攻端上的差距。

3.    科怀-伦纳德。

4.    扬尼斯-阿德托昆博。上赛季他在球场上的攻防两端表现的如同一只野兽一般。

5.    保罗-乔治。和吉米-巴特勒相比真的很接近，但是我个人认为PG的攻防两端都比吉米要略强一些。我认为PG应该公认比吉米排名更高吧。

6.    吉米-巴特勒。在我看来，要比海沃德更加出色。

7.    戈登-海沃德。

8.    卡梅隆-安东尼。

9.    奥托-波特。攻防两端都很出色的球员，效率也很高。所以在我看来要比威金斯更好。

10. 安德鲁-威金斯

各位JR都是怎么想的呢?

For me

1.    Lebron James. Self explanatory

2.    Kevin Durant. The defensive gap between KD and Kawhi is not enough to fill the offensive gap between them.

3.    Kawhi Leonard.

4.    Giannis Antetokounmpo Was an absolute beast on both ends of the floor last season

5.    Paul George It"s close, but PG has the offensive edge AND the defensive edge over a Jimmy imo. I think PG should be the consensus better player than Jimmy.

6.    Jimmy Butler Easily better than Hayward imo

7.    Gordon Hayward

8.    Carmelo Anthony

9.    Otto Porter Good two way player with great efficiency. Good enough for me to to out over Wiggins

10. Andrew Wiggins

Thoughts?

[–][MIN] Tyus Jonespollinium 421 points 9 hours ago

One of Butler/Wiggins will not be a SF coming into the 2017-2018 season, so that"s kind of an important part to rectify

森林狼球迷：巴特勒和威金斯中的一个不会在2017-2018赛季打小前锋的位置了，所以还是很有必要纠正一下这一点的。

[–][ATL] Doc RiversBlitzArchangel 38 points 8 hours ago

Yeah it"s kinda weird to see op put them on the list together.

是啊，看到楼主把他们都放在这个名单上的确有些怪怪的。

[–]TimberwolvesDon_Machetazo 21 points 5 hours ago

They both played SF a lot last year, so it kind of makes sense

不过他们上赛季打的都是小前锋位置，所以这样排还是有一些道理的。

[–]Pacerstacomptonpacers 70 points 7 hours ago

Except positions are dumb and don"t mean shit.

把球员打什么位置区分的这么清楚真的太蠢了，而且这毫无意义。

[–]PacersDrak_is_Right 62 points 7 hours ago

then we might as well include every wing player including all SGs?

so Harden should be near top of list.

那我们是不是得把所有的侧翼球员，包括所有的得分后卫都加进来？

那样哈登应该出现在这份名单的最前列了。

[–]TimberwolvesDreadWolf3 43 points 6 hours ago

yup, SF is more or less arbitrary. We should have guards,wings and big men lists. Harden is a guard tho.

是的，小前锋位置现在的定位变得越来越模糊了。我们应该列出最佳后卫，最佳侧翼，最佳大个子球员这样的名单。而且哈登打的位置是后卫。

[–]Spurssiaka_stevens 3 points 2 hours ago

Brad Stevens? Is that you?

绿军少帅史蒂文森？是你本人吗？[译注1]

[译注1] 凯尔特人主帅布拉德-史蒂文斯接受采访时表示，“我认为场上不再有五个位置，”史蒂文斯说，“可能现在可以简化成三个位置，处理球的人、侧翼以及大个子。”

[–][SAS] Manu GinobiliPrimid47 87 points 8 hours ago

"Crock of BS. Wait till this season"

-Rudy

马刺球迷：“瞎列什么名单，赛季结束后等着瞧吧！”——鲁迪-盖伊

[–]SpursSmallFaithfulTestes 3 points 2 hours ago

Damn I really want Rudy to have a great year. Like 15/6/3 or something along those lines.

嗨呀我真的希望鲁迪能打出高水准的一年。拿下场均15分6篮板3助攻左右这样的数据吧。

[–]Supersonicsbiinroii01 568 points 10 hours ago

Most underrated SF: Robert Covington

提名最被低估的小前锋：罗伯特-考文顿。

[–]76ersmnewman19 167 points 9 hours ago

I love that /r/nba respects roco

76人球迷：看到Reddit这么尊敬我们的上将考文顿真的太赞了

[–]Lakersdnguyen93 70 points 8 hours ago

He is considered a god over at /r/fantasybball

他在Reddit的范特西篮球游戏里就是神一般的存在。

[–][MIL] Giannis AntetokounmpoWIN011 29 points 9 hours ago

He"s gonna get even less love with fultz and Simmons coming in

但是当球队加入富尔茨和西蒙斯之后，他就不会得到这么多的爱了:(

[–]76ersOnAWhale 45 points 9 hours ago

Nah, he"s about to get a whole lotta love because he"s gonna have an amazing season. Dude was surrounded by shitty shooters the last few years and defenses started focusing on not letting him shoot 3s. Now when he"s the 4th or 5th option on offense with some really good offensive talent around him he"s gonna have so much more space.

76人球迷：不会的！他会得到更多的爱因为他将要打出一个很出色的赛季！这家伙前几个赛季身边都是很糟糕的投手，所以对手的防守总会集中在他身上，不让他轻易出手三分。现在在进攻端他成为了球队第四或第五选择，而且他在一群进攻端天赋出众的球员身边打球，他会得到更多的空位机会。

[–][TOR] Amir JohnsonModernPoultry 16 points 8 hours ago

Roco is great. I dont think he makes this list but very underrated. Probably 11 if you extend it

考文顿的确很棒。我不认为他能排进前十，但是他的确是被低估了。如果把名单延长几位他应该能排在第11的位置上。

[–]Celticsbteballup 25 points 8 hours ago

Don"t think so depending on how you value Harrison Barnes, Jae Crowder, Trevor Ariza, and Danilo Gallinari

并不能认同楼上的想法，你把哈里森-巴恩斯，杰-克劳德，特雷沃-阿里扎，和达尼洛-加里纳利放在哪儿了！

[–][GSW] Stephen CurryIronhide94 128 points 10 hours ago

Top 8 look great. I think a lot of other guys have an argument for 9th and 10th

楼主排的前八名看起来都很棒，但我觉得现在很多其他球员都有资格竞争下后两名的位置。

[–]Cavaliersj0ydivisi0n 102 points 9 hours ago

Cedi Osman being vastly underrated in this thread. On the brink of Top 5 for sure.

骑士球迷：切迪-奥斯曼绝对是这个帖子里最被低估的球员了！他至少能挤进前五吧！

[–][TOR] DeMar DeRozanDeRusselDeWestbrook 24 points 9 hours ago

Yeah man, People be sleepin on Powel too, definetely around the KD-Kawhi range.

猛龙球迷：是啊大兄弟，人们也经常忽略我龙小将诺曼-鲍威尔！他应该能排在KD和伦纳德左右的位置吧！

[–]Thunderunderceeeeej 53 points 8 hours ago

the amount of disrespect that kyle singler gets on this sub is sickening smh

雷霆球迷：这个论坛上这么多人不尊敬我雷男神辛格勒真是快把我看吐了，手动摇头

[–]RaptorsJoseCaldercat 58 points 9 hours ago

Still no Bruno? Smh

猛龙球迷：还是没提到我龙的布鲁诺-卡博克洛？手动摇头

[–]Vegeto1786[S] 23 points 9 hours ago

Brazilian KD"s time will come.

别担心，属于巴西KD[译注2]的时代会到来的！

[译注2] 卡博克洛身高6尺9，臂展达到7尺7，体型与凯文-杜兰特相似，被称为巴西KD。

[–]19ad9 186 points 9 hours ago

I think Harrison Barnes makes the best case for that last spot over Wiggins

我认为对于榜单上最后一个名额来说，哈里森-巴恩斯可能比威金斯更加合适吧。

[–]Nitro1423 49 points 6 hours ago

I"d put him over Porter.

是我的话，我会把他排在波特前边。

[–]Might_as_well_toke 28 points 3 hours ago

Harrison Barnes will always be slept on bc of his underwhelming finals performance

哈里森-巴恩斯将会因为他总决赛卧底般的表现而一直被大家忽略的。

[–]KnicksTHJisWerthIt 75 points 10 hours ago

Top 8 are spot on. I would go 9. Wiggins and 10. Harrison Barnes.

认同楼主排出的前八位小前锋。我会在第九位选择威金斯，第十位选择哈里森-巴恩斯。

[–]HeatGiannis1995 18 points 7 hours ago

Barnes over Porter. Shot creation > TS%

巴恩斯强于波特。创造投篮的能力比真实命中率更有说服力

[–]Raptorspussykicker 3 points 3 hours ago

People look at that TS and 3p% and automatically take Porter over Barnes, just baffling

人们看了一眼真实命中率和三分命中率就自动的认为波特强于巴恩斯了，这很让人困惑。

[–]Vancouver Grizzliestrump_2-0_1-6 190 points 10 hours ago

I"d personally for now put Paul George above Giannis

我个人来说会把保罗-乔治排在字母哥之前。

[–]MavericksDirkNowitzkisWife 253 points 10 hours ago

I upvoted you for discussion, but for now I disagree.

Their stats are 22.9/8.8/5.4 for Giannis versus 23.7/6.6/3.3 for George.

So George is slightly better scorer but Giannis grabbed a good deal more rebounds and assists. Giannis" true shooting was 59.9%, and George was 58.7%. Defense is harder to quantify, but Giannis had 4.5 defensive win shares versus 3.1 for George, and Giannis averaged 3.5 "stocks" per game, to George"s 2.

I know advanced stats love a volume stat stuffer guy like Giannis and don"t usually pick up what a guy like Paul George does. I also know that despite true shooting numbers, George is a much better 3 point shooter. He took 6.6 a game and made over 39% of those. But I would give the slight edge to Giannis.

为了讨论我给你点亮了一下，但是现在我不是很认同这个观点。

他们的数据对比如下：字母哥场均22.9分8.8篮板5.4助攻，乔治场均23.7分6.6篮板3.3助攻。

所以乔治得分比字母哥略高一点，但是字母哥抓下了更多的篮板送出了更多的助攻。字母哥的真实投篮命中率达到了59.9%，乔治则是58.7%。防守端很难量化对比，但是字母哥防守胜利贡献值为4.5，乔治则是3.1。字母哥场均还能拿下3.5次的抢断+盖帽，而乔治只有2次[译注3]

我知道高阶数据更倾向于选择像字母哥这样能够填充各项数据的球员，而不是选择像保罗-乔治这样的球员。我也知道尽管真实命中率比字母哥低，乔治仍是一位更加出色的三分投手。他场均出手6.6次三分，并且保持了39%的三分命中率。但是我还是认为字母哥实力更强一点点。

[译注3] Stocks在这里指抢断数与盖帽数的总和。字母哥上赛季场均1.64次抢断，1.89次盖帽。保罗-乔治上赛季场均1.59次抢断，0.36次盖帽。

[–]BucksBeaugin 166 points 9 hours ago

Giannis and PG are drastically different scorers despite being within 1 ppg and just over 1% difference in TS%. Paul George took 325 shots within 10ft, and 1,113 from outside that range. Giannis attempted 893 shots within 10ft (687 of which were at the rim) and only 477 jump shots.

Paul George is a more versatile scorer, but he might lean too much on his jumpshot, where Giannis doesn"t have much of a jumpshot at all. Depending on your surrounding talent, you could probably make an argument for either player.

字母哥和PG完全是风格迥异的得分手，尽管他们场均得分只有1分之差，真实命中率也只有1%的差距。保罗-乔治在10英尺之内的投篮有325次，10英尺之外的投篮有1113次。字母哥在10英尺以内的投篮有893次（687次出手在篮筐附近），他只出手了477次跳投。

保罗-乔治是位进攻手段更加丰富的得分手，但是他太依赖于自己的跳投了，而字母哥则没有这么多的跳投次数。根据你周围的天赋水平，你可以在二人中做出更合适的选择。

[–]MavericksDirkNowitzkisWife 37 points 9 hours ago

Oh yeah. I got into an argument on here awhile back that just because your true shooting is better doesn"t necessarily make you a better scorer, and I think this is a great example. George has the "Kobe" syndrome, of being the only real option on his team, taking tough shots etc. Your true shooting will be pretty high if you"re always driving and dunking like Giannis. So, despite George being more versatile, I would still want the ball in Giannis" hands i I needed 2 points, if that makes sense.

哦对了，我之前还和别人讨论过这个问题，你的真实命中率更高并不意味着你是个更加出色的得分手，然后我认为这就是个绝佳的例子。乔治有着他的“科比接班人综合征”，比如他是球队唯一能仰仗的得分点，经常投出高难度的球等等。如果你像字母哥那样频繁杀入篮下暴扣的话，那你的真实命中率也会变得很高。所以说呢，尽管乔治是进攻万花筒般技巧丰富，我仍希望在需要得到两分的时候，能把球交到字母哥手上让他攻一个。

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