騎士的陣容之謎！面對連敗，泰倫-盧該不該更換首發球員？
騎士的陣容之謎！面對連敗，泰倫-盧該不該更換首發球員？
克利夫蘭老實人報記者Joe Vardon：一些騎士球員不理解為什麼泰倫-盧排兵布陣不考慮對位情況。對陣有大中鋒球隊時，球員們心想：應該先上TT啊。從泰倫-盧的角度看，身為一名前NBA球員，他認為，在連敗的時候更換首發會傳遞出被換出首發的球員是連敗問題所在的信號。
Vardon] Some (Cavs) wonder why Lue doesn"t use lineups that are more matchup based. When playing teams with big centers, players say, start Thompson at center. As a former player, (Lue) thinks making a change during a losing streak sends a message that it was one guy"s fault they lost.
From Cavs beat writer, Joe Vardon.
So Lue isn"t making adjustments because he"s afraid to hurt someone"s feelings? The fuck? They are all professionals and can understand if matchups need to be set. And if they don"t understand maybe it will light a fire under their ass (looking at you Jae and JR). Sometimes the best way to break out of a funk is to change things up and I"m not sure Lue understands this concept.
所以泰倫-盧就是怕傷害某位球員的幼小心靈而不去調整陣容嗎？我的天啊！他們都是職業球員，都明白對陣不同對手時可能要調整陣容。如果他們不懂的話，那可能被換下首發反而會燃起他們的鬥志，知恥而後勇（說的就是你倆，傑-克勞德和JR）。當你處境艱難的時候做出一些調整是改變現狀的最好辦法，我不確定泰倫-盧是否明白這個道理。
[–]Celticsshanmustafa 326 指標 7小時前
I guess that makes sense, but then again, if you"re a team player, I"d imagine you understand. The Celtics do this with Baynes, against big teams Baynes starts, against small teams, Morris will start
凱爾特人球迷：泰倫-盧這麼想倒也不是沒有道理。不過話說回來了，球員作為球隊的一份子，應該理解教練會根據不同對手而去調整陣容。凱爾特人怎麼用阿隆-貝恩斯的？對大中鋒時就他首發，對小陣容就馬庫斯-莫里斯首發。
[–]RaptorsDenzelOntario 63 指標 5小時前
Exactly. Raptors do the same with Valanciunas. If we play a team that plays big, he plays 30+ minutes. If we play small ball team, he always plays much fewer minutes. And he』s still a total team guy, never complains, always supporting.
NBA players aren』t children. They』re adults that usually understand when their minutes are changed or reduced. If the team starts winning more after making certain changes, a player』s 「feelings」 shouldn』t matter.
猛龍球迷：就是啊。我龍也是這麼用約納斯-瓦蘭丘納斯的。當對陣有大個的球隊時他會上場超過30分鐘。對陣小球陣容就打少一點。他是個以球隊為先的球員，對這樣的安排從不抱怨，在球隊需要他的時候提供支援。
NBA球員都不是小孩子，作為成人他們都應該理解他們的上場時間有變化或者減少了。如果球隊在陣容調整後能贏更多球，某個球員的所謂「感受」就不那麼重要了
[–]RaptorsTreChomes 42 指標 5小時前
And valanciunas has a reason to complain too. JV is a consummate pro.
猛龍球迷：而且這還是在約納斯-瓦蘭丘納斯有充足的理由去抱怨的前提下。他真是個職業球員典範。
[–]Magic Bandwagonyesiamheman 153 指標 6小時前
Remember all the issues when dwade was starting? I think there are a few cavs that arent really team players
還記得韋德打首發時騎士不算太平的更衣室嗎？我覺得有些騎士球員並不是把球隊放在第一位的。
[–]Timberwolvesfoul_al 29 指標 3小時前*
Exactly. Even though they"re most likely the two best teams in the East, the Cavs and Celtics couldn"t be further apart in terms of cohesion. The Celts are all about buying into the team concept and sacrificing individual stats, while the Cavs just carry this constant burden of needing to win for LeBron"s legacy.
就是啊。雖然同為東部最強的球隊之一，騎士和凱爾特人的團隊氛圍是截然不同的。凱爾特人的球員都對團隊的概念買賬，不惜犧牲個人數據，反過來騎士全隊都像扛著勝利是為詹姆斯歷史地位添磚加瓦的包袱來打球。
It doesn"t help that talent-wise, LeBron is head and shoulders above anyone on his team and he performs almost every night. If you have a bad game, you"re not only going to get skewered by media/fans, but you"ve failed to live up to LeBron"s expectations.
而且，在個人能力方面，詹姆斯要超出騎士的每個人一大截，幾乎每晚都能打出上佳表現，這種巨大的能力鴻溝也對騎士球員的心理沒啥好處。如果某位騎士球員某晚打得不好，他不僅會受到來自媒體和球迷的口誅筆伐，更會因達不到詹姆斯的期望而自慚形穢。
Edit: And before people misinterpret my post, I want to clarify that not all strategies work equally for different teams. Although I"m not a huge Lue fan, I agree with his statement for this team. Swapping starters for the Celtics isn"t a huge deal but it could create some unnecessary turmoil in the Cavs locker room. Just my two cents.
追加編輯：在有人誤會我上面的話之前，我先澄清下我認為某些戰術並不是對所有球隊都適用的。雖然我不是泰倫-盧的粉絲，但他這番話我還是認同的。更換首發對於凱爾特人來說不算大事兒，但在騎士可能會引發不必要的更衣室問題。這是本人拙見，僅作拋磚引玉。
[–]EastUtopianDuck 17 指標 3小時前
the Cavs just carry this constant burden of needing to win for LeBron"s legacy
I"m not convinced that this is the reason why some Cavaliers are agitating for minutes, starting, etc. Seems rather simple to me, many of the players have out-sized individual agendas and it"s a problem. That Lue felt the need to go to the media about it speaks volumes on the team"s lack of mutual accountability and their sensitivity to media perception.
「騎士全隊都像扛著勝利是為詹姆斯歷史地位添磚加瓦的包袱來打球」？
我不太相信騎士球員是因為這個原因去糾結出場時間或者首發之類的。我認為泰倫-盧不改變首發陣容的理由很簡單，就是某些球員的小九九打得太足了，這就是個事兒。泰倫-盧覺得有必要通過媒體來發聲，這恰恰說明了球隊內部缺少彼此問責的現狀，以及騎士球員對媒體的言論的敏感。
[–]mendeleyev 7 指標 3小時前
I think it was and is JR who keeps creating these problems.
我覺得就是JR在搞事情。
[–]Magic Bandwagonyesiamheman 14 指標 2小時前
I think its quite a few people tbh. The recent story about lebrons passing makes me think its more than just jr
老實說我覺得不止他一個，特別是最近有關詹姆斯傳球的言論更讓我覺得不止JR一人。
[–][CLE] LeBron Jamesxorphz 281 指標 7小時前
Wtf happened to All In? This isn"t about saving anyone"s feelings.
騎士球迷：這特么的，說好的All In（全力以赴）呢？All In可不是照顧某個人的情緒啊。
[–][SAS] Vinnie JohnsonButterstuffednuts 217 指標 6小時前
Lebron knows what he is doing. Calm down. If he wanted Lue to make a change to the line up he would have said something to the media.
詹姆斯很清楚自己在幹什麼，我們淡定點。如果他想要泰倫-盧調整首發的話他早對媒體說了，TX。
[–]CelticsFultzisABust 47 指標 5小時前
I hate this whole "fuck how you feel" thing people think about coaches. Thats not how coaches work. Its their job to build cohesiveness and unity in the lockerroom in addition to the on the court stuff. If they disregarded how everyone feels the locker room would be a mess. Lue makes a good point
凱爾特人球迷：我就很討厭大家認為教練執教就應該「去特么的球員怎麼想」。教練不是這麼乾的！除了在場上指揮比賽，建立和保持球隊在更衣室內的凝聚力也是教練的職責所在。如果教練不理會球員的感受，那更衣室只會一團糟。泰倫-盧在這點上是對的。
[–]LakersLionZoo13 27 指標 5小時前
Well, except for Mark Jackson, whose job was to build divisiveness in the locker room.
好吧～除了馬克-傑克遜，誰會在更衣室里搞分裂啊。
[–]Celticsyeit 32 指標 6小時前
feelings can affect chemistry though.
球員的感受對球隊的化學反應也是有影響的。
[–]Raptorsshiny_dittos 37 指標 5小時前
So can losing
一直輸球也會有影響啊。
[–]NBAFookThaMaywetters 14 指標 5小時前
"I don"t want to hurt someone"s feelings, so we gotta stay luesing." - Ty Lue
「我不想傷害球員的感受，所以我們只能繼續當盧瑟了。」泰倫-盧說。
[–]RocketsTheBrownMamba1997 144 指標 7小時前
Nick Saban was losing halftime to Georgia and swapped out Jalen Hurts for Tua. It ended up winning them the game. Sometimes you need to make those adjustments.
Also I understand that there』s a difference between regular season nba games and a college football championship so please do not reply with that lazy ass response
阿拉巴馬大學的主教練尼克-塞班在半場落後給喬治亞大學的情況下果斷更換球員，換下Jalen Hurts換上Tua，最後他的球隊贏下了比賽。所以說有時你就得做出改變。
我也知道一場NBA常規賽不同於一場大學橄欖球冠軍爭奪戰，所以別亂噴我。
[–]Celticsward0630 54 指標 6小時前
Ty Lue doesn"t have the credibility and respect that Saban has, but I agree its pointless to start less effective lineups just to avoid hurt feelings.
泰倫-盧不像塞班在隊里有那麼大威望和魄力，但為了不傷害球員感受就用低效率的首發陣容也沒啥意義啊。
[–]RaptorsDenzelOntario 38 指標 5小時前
If a coach doesn』t have the credibility and respect to put Tristan Thompson on the bench, then he shouldn』t be your coach.
如果一個教練沒有威望和魄力把TT放在替補席上，那他別當教練了。
[–]Knicksbrohymn 381 指標 7小時前*
Ehhh I』m clearly no coach but I kinda agree with Lue on this. You build up your plan and you stick with it. Trust your players to make their shots and run the plays that you know can and have won you games before.
Nobody was saying this when the Cavs were on their win streak.
Maybe I』m in the minority here but you don』t go into triage mode and start making adjustment against specific matchups. You stick to the plan you and your team built.
Edit: should also mention, based off what I』ve seen, the Cavs problem is more of a issue with effort more than matchup and x and o. Their xo』s aren』t perfect but when the open shots are falling, it』s a thing of beauty.
呃……我並不是教練但我認同泰倫-盧的說法。他有自己的比賽計劃並貫徹執行。他相信隊員能命中投籃，打出像他們以前贏球一樣的比賽。在騎士連勝期間可沒人出來指指點點啊。
我的想法可能只是論壇少數，但作為教練你不能頭痛醫頭腳痛醫腳啊。你就應該堅持自己的排兵布陣和比賽計劃。
補充：另外，就我所看過的騎士比賽而言，騎士的問題遠不止在首發陣容和比賽戰術上。戰術是並不完美，但是騎士球員手感好時，那簡直要上天。
[–]Kekukoka 94 指標 7小時前
At the same time, remember how we threw away the 13-14 season because Woodson was too stubborn to recognize we played better with Melo at the 4 and could have used Bargnani"s scoring punch off the bench? We went from worst of the worst to near the top of the league both offensively and record-wise from January on once we went back to our smaller, 12-13 style of offense.
Sometimes you need to have humility and recognize that you simply aren"t good enough to force teams to adjust to you.
尼克斯球迷：與此同時，大家記得我們2013-14賽季沒獲得理想成績就是因為邁克-伍德森教練太過固執，不願意把甜瓜放在更適合他的四號位，以及不願意安排巴格亞尼作為替補陣容的得分點嗎？那年1月份之後我們換回了小個陣容，重拾2012-13賽季的進攻風格，進攻從聯盟幾乎墊底躍升至前幾。
有時候你就得謙虛的承認：你的隊伍還沒有好到讓對手的陣容和戰術因你而變的地步。
[–]Raptorspleasefeedthedino 42 指標 6小時前
This is why superficial analysis fails.
From November 11th to December 17th the Cavs were 18-1. But of those 18 wins, only 3 were against teams over .500. The streak is misleading as a gauge of the plan"s success, because the plan only works well against bad teams. For the season the Cavs are 8-10 vs .500+ teams.
這就是為啥流於表面的分析沒有營養。
11月11日-12月17日期間騎士獲得了18勝1負的戰績。但這18場勝利里只有3場對手是勝率在50%以上的。這波連勝給人騎士走上正軌的錯覺，但這陣容只對弱隊有用。理由就是騎士對陣50%以上勝率的球隊只有8勝10負。
It"s not a matter of triage. It"s a matter of accurately diagnosing problems so that when you face good teams you have a solution.
這不是說頭痛醫頭腳痛醫腳，而是你要精確診斷出現有的問題才能在對陣強隊時有相應的應對之法。
[–]Knicksbrohymn 14 指標 6小時前
Whether or not his game plan is actually good is not the question though. His game plan might be crap but with a team of experienced vets like the Cavs, you don』t start making a bunch of bandaid fixes and flail around and hope something works.
Really the point im trying to make is specific to the OP』s quote - Ty Lue absolutely should not slot TT into a game here and there at starter based on matchup. Either decide TT is a starter and build your plan around that or don』t. It』ll do more harm to change up your roster on the fly and never let your roster build good feel and chemistry with the others on the floor.
泰倫-盧的比賽計劃是不是真的出色不是問題所在啊。比賽計劃就算很爛，但是對於騎士一幫有經驗的球員來說，教練不應當到處這修一下那補一下、祈禱它會奏效。
針對樓主引用的內容，其實我真正想說的是泰倫-盧絕對不應當為了陣容的對位而今天首發TT、明天替補TT。要麼就決定TT是首發，圍繞這個陣容建立計劃，要麼就乾脆別換來換去。隨隨便便就調整陣容對球隊的傷害更大，使球隊無法建立起良好的場上化學反應。
[–][BOS] Carlos ArroyoJuansDayOff 17 指標 5小時前
I disagree
Brad does this constantly because more than anything he wants to have the best lineup possible to win against whatever team he"s up against
If Lue values the players feelings getting hurt over not starting above winning he"s got a problem
凱爾特人球迷：我不同意這個觀點。
布拉德-史蒂文斯教練不停地再調整陣容就是為了無論對陣那支球隊都能擺出最有可能勝出的首發。如果泰倫-盧把球員的感受放在球隊贏球之上，他不是很懂球啊。
[–][TOR] DeMar DeRozanPsychoM 16 指標 5小時前
I read Lue"s quote differently than you did. Instead of trying not to hurt the players" feelings, he seems more interested in distributing the blame and the shortcomings throughout the team.
If he puts Crowder or JR on the bench and the Cavs start winning, the other starters, IT Lebron and Love will think it was solely because of the benched player that they were losing and that their play during the losing streak was acceptable. The way I see it, Lue wants to say that everyone owns a piece of the losing streak and until they as a team can improve and come out of it, they"ll keep losing.
If JR is benched, Cavs start winning and the rest of the starters put all the blame on JR and none on themselves, no lesson is learned.
我對泰倫-盧的那番話有不同的解讀。他不像是在不想傷害球員的感受，而是想讓隊里所有人知道球隊面臨的質疑和缺點和每個人都有關係。
如果他把傑-克勞德和JR放回替補陣容而騎士開始贏球了，那其它三位首發托馬斯、詹姆斯和勒夫會單純地認為之前的連敗就是替補陣容太弱了，會覺得他們首發打得還可以。泰倫-盧想要告訴全隊之前的連敗所有人都有責任，他們需要作為一個整體來獲得提升，否則只會一直輸下去。
如果JR被放到替補席而騎士贏球了，其他首發都會覺得是JR的問題而不去反思自己，這樣就不能從失敗中得到經驗。
[–][CLE] LeBron Jamesnewunnavi 32 指標 7小時前
The problem with James-Love-Thompson as your front court is that"s been proven to be disastrous against the Durant Warriors.
I still think it"s better to build chemistry with lineups and players that will actually see PT in the Finals (meaning no Frye, no Thompson in the starting lineup, etc.). I"m confident that this roster is good enough to win the East on talent alone.
騎士球迷：詹姆斯/勒夫/TT的前場陣容的災難性已經在上次打勇士的時候得到證明了。
我堅持認為，重點是為能在總決賽上場的輪換陣容和球員建立化學反應（就是說不上錢寧-弗萊、不用TT打首發），我很有信心這個陣容僅靠天賦就能在東部奪魁。
[–]Cavaliersthe_iceman_cometh 53 指標 7小時前
If a more respected coach said the exact same thing, nobody would have a problem with it.
Nobody changes their starting lineups constantly, especially on a veteran team.
騎士球迷：如果是一位更受尊敬的教練說出同樣的話，沒有人會發出質疑。
沒有教練會頻繁改變首發陣容的，特別是以老將為主的球隊里。
[–]Celticsaxistenfold[??] 16 指標 6小時前
Brad stevens does
凱爾特人球迷：布拉德-史蒂文斯就經常這麼干啊。
[–][CLE] Kyle Korvercalebkeith 15 指標 5小時前
Half his players are 20 y/o. Different mentalities.
騎士球迷：凱爾特人里一半球員都是只有20左右的年輕人，心態不一樣啊。
[–][OKC] Chucky AtkinsSPAGHETTI_CAKE 14 指標 7小時前
The biggest problem for me is what shakeups can they really make? They can swap JR and Korver in the starting lineup I guess. But IT and LBJ and Love are locked in. Without Crowder their opening lineup defense would be horrendous. I guess they can try Green as a starter but who knows how that would go. Their roster kinda has their hands tied and if they aren"t willing to deal the Nets pick they better hope that the team figures shit out
對我來說最大的問題是他們到底能搞出多大的改變？我覺得可以把科沃爾提上首發、JR放在替補陣容里。但是托馬斯、詹姆斯和勒夫是不可能動了。少了傑-克勞德的首發陣容防守就是清晨的馬路。我猜他們可能把傑夫-格林放進首發，但實際效果如何也不得而知。感覺騎士目前的人員構成已經很難玩出什麼變化了，如果他們還不想交易籃網簽的話，那就只能祈禱現在的這幫人能突然開竅了。
[–]CavaliersKingofRivet 14 指標 7小時前
Are defense is horrendous with crowder as well.
騎士球迷：有克勞德的騎士防守也是清晨的馬路。
※科比退役後對現役球員讚賞有佳悉心指導，為何與巴克利們畫風不同？
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