《Hello！》採訪薩古魯：物質與修行

最新 03-01

Sadhguru was interviewed by the lifestyle magazine Hello! in which he responded to a range of interesting questions. In a three-part series, we bring you excerpts from the piece which appeared in the magazine』s May 2013 issue. In this part, Sadhguru answers queries on materialism and spirituality.

薩古魯近期接受了生活雜誌《Hello！》的採訪，期間針對很多有趣的問題，他給出了回答。在分為三部分的系列專題博客里，我們將會給大家呈獻的是節選自《Hello》雜誌135期月刊上的文章其中，前兩期主要探討的是物質與靈性修行的關係，以及現代生活中所面臨的挑戰；在最後兩期的博文中，薩古魯探討的是我們作為人類的責任以及實現人類潛能的方法。

Questioner: You have talked about attaining spirituality while being in the material world and enjoying its benefits. Is there anything one must give up to experience a higher state of being?

提問：你已經談及了在物質世界中尋求靈性，並享受其益處。是否人們必須捨棄某些東西，才能達到一種更高的境界？

Sadhguru:These questions are always being asked: 「If I follow a spiritual path, can I live with my family? Can I wear good clothes and eat well?」 Distinguishing between material and spiritual life has come from a certain level of ignorance. The earth you walk upon, the air you breathe and the food you eat are material. The body itself is material. Can we separate whatever you refer to as the spirit in you from your body? So, how can you separate the material and the spiritual?

薩古魯：人們常會這樣問你說的這些問題：「如果我走上修行之路，我能不能和家人一起生活？我能不能穿好吃好？」把物質生活和修行生活分開，其實是某種程度的無知。你腳踏的土地，呼吸的空氣，咀嚼的食物，都是物質。身體本身也是物質。我們能夠將我們所認為的靈性和身體分開嗎？如果能，你要怎麼把它們分開？

What we need to change is not the content of our life. We need to change the context of our life. Even if you go to a Himalayan cave, you are still the same person, aren』t you? So, this is not about changing our world, we are changing the way we experience it.

我們需要改變的不是生命的內容。我們需要改變的是體驗生命的方式。就算你去到喜馬拉雅山的洞穴中，你還是原來的你，不是嗎？所以說，這無關改變我們的世界，重要的是改變我們體驗世界的方式。

As far as I can see, everyone is striving for happiness, everyone is striving to be free. That means every human being is seeking spirituality. A few are striving consciously, most are striving unconsciously. If you find unconscious expression to it, it gets labeled as materialism. If you find conscious expression to it, we call it a spiritual process. Isn』t it better to seek consciously with eyes open rather than closed?

每個人都在爭取自己的幸福，每個人都在爭取自己的自由。這就意味著每個人都在追尋著靈性。有一部分人是有意識地在爭取，但大部分人都是無意識的。如果你要無意識地表達，我們就叫它物質；如果你要有意識地表達，我們就稱它靈性修行。睜著眼睛有意識地追尋，要比閉著眼睛追尋來得好吧？

Questioner: In times when not managing a front-row invite, the latest designer bag/car or a fancy holiday can cause stress to many, how does one justify material want when it is likely to come with much angst?

提問：沒有收到VIP邀請的時候，沒有得到最新款名包或豪車的時候，沒有享受到美妙假日的時候，對於許多人來說，就會造成壓力，並伴隨著焦慮。人們該如何去看待物質的追求？

Sadhguru:Essentially, every human being is trying to have a larger slice of life. If he knows only money, he is thinking of a little more money; if he knows power, a little more power; if he knows love, a little more love. But if you apply your awareness and look at it, you can clearly see that you are not seeking money, property, love or pleasure; what you are seeking is expansion. How much expansion would settle you for good? If you look at this, you can see that you are looking for infinite expansion. It is definitely time to stop and look at what is driving us like crazy, to possess more and do more because it is not the 「things」 that we are after. There is something within you which does not like boundaries, which is looking for a boundless experience.

薩古魯：基本上，每個人在生活中都渴求得到更多。如果他只知道「錢」，他肯定想著要得到更多的錢。如果他知道「權利」，他肯定想著要得到更多的權利。如果他知道「愛」，他肯定想著要得到更多的愛。可是，如果你注意觀察，你會發現，你所追求的並不是錢、不是財富、愛，也不是快樂。你所追求的其實是一種「擴張」。需要擴展到什麼程度，你才能滿意？如果你仔細觀察，你會發現你想要的是一種無限的擴展。是時候該停下來了，因為我們追求的不是摸得著、觸得到的「東西」。好好看看是什麼使你如此的瘋狂，否則，你只會想要得到更多，為此更加忙碌奔波。在你的體內，有這樣一部分的你，不慣於受束縛，一直在追求一種無邊際的體驗。

It is wonderful that you are seeking the infinite itself but the problem is you are seeking it in installments. You can never reach the infinite by counting 1 2 3… Unless you use the right instrument, it will not happen. If you are looking for something boundless, it has to be non-physical. The moment you seek that which is not physical, we say you are spiritual.

當然，如果你追求的是「無限」本身，那是很好。但問題是，你在斷斷續續地追求。如果你數著步子1、2、3，你永遠都到達不了「無限」，除非你選對了方法。如果你追尋一種無限的東西，那它絕對是非物質的。當你開始追尋非物質的東西，我們就會說，你走在靈性之路上。

Questioner: Some critics have often termed new-age spirituality as a fad. How would you respond to them?

提問：有些評論家常常把新時期的靈性修行當成一種潮流。你是如何看待？

Sadhguru:Unfortunately, today, spirituality is the most misunderstood and misrepresented aspect of life. The way it is being presented worldwide, some of it is utterly ridiculous, a lot of it is crooked, much more of it is well-meaning but stupid. Sometime ago in the US, someone took me to a spiritual expo where they were selling spiritual bath soap, spiritual toothpaste, and what not! This is like an Indian village shandy where they sell you a root which makes you invisible. People are desperately trying to make simple situations of life mystical. Any number of things have become spiritual except the human being – that』s the whole problem.

薩古魯：不幸的是，在當今，靈性修行是我們生活中最受誤解、最受歪曲的方面之一。它被呈現的方式，在全球，有些是非常滑稽可笑的，很多都是曲解的報道，更多的報道是善意的，但是非常愚蠢。前段時間在美國，有個人帶我去靈修展會，那裡在賣靈修沐浴肥皂、靈修牙膏，這些都不能幫助靈修。這就好像是印度村莊，在那裡，他們會賣給你一種能讓你隱形的植物的根。人們總是喜歡把簡簡單單的生活變得神秘兮兮，所有的事物都變得有靈性，唯獨人類自己卻沒有，這就是問題所在。

Spirituality is not about right and wrong or about God and heaven. Spirituality is about exploring the ultimate limits of who you are. Once you come here as a human being, all that is possible in this human being, every dimension that exists as 「you」 must be experienced, isn』t it? If you go without experiencing yourself, that』s a wasted life. If there was a possibility that every moment of your life, no matter what is happening with the outside situation, you could be bursting with ecstasy within yourself, wouldn』t you want it?

靈修沒有對錯，也無關上帝、天堂。靈性修行是為了探索終極真我。只要作為一個人來到這個世界，在你身上的一切，所有作為「你」存在的各個維度都應當被體驗到，難道不是嗎？如果你沒有體驗過自我就離開了這個世界，這絕對是浪費生命。如果你生命的每一分每一秒，無論外部環境怎麼改變，你內心都能迸發出狂喜，這樣的人生難道你不想要嗎？

英文鏈接:http://blog.ishafoundation.org/lifestyle/hello-interviews-sadhguru-the-material-and-the-spiritual/

Love&Grace

Sadhguru

愛與恩典

薩古魯