Zigeng Dai：China has been lacking innovation

人物 04-20

戴自更曾說，他非常喜歡魯迅的一句話：「肩住黑暗的閘門，放他們到寬闊光明的地方去」。

Zigeng Dai once mentioned that he upheld a quote by Mr. Lu Xun: "Resist the gate of darkness and release them to some where broad and bright. "

如今，人到中年的戴自更仍然不改先前偏愛的信念。在2019年3月21日的「尋找中國創客」第五季啟動峰會上，他說他還很喜歡茨威格的一句話：「那些被人們高高舉動，推進殿堂的英雄，都是無一不有強烈的個人意志與跌蕩的歷史宿命的碰撞，成就一代偉業。」

To this date, Zigeng Dai at his middle age still favors his past beliefs. On the launch summit of the fifth "Born for Maker "on March 21, 2019, he cited a quote from Stefan Zweig: "All of the heroes who were worshipped in the hall of fame accomplished great causes with relentless perseverance to strive against the ups and downs of their fates in history. "

提到自己喜歡的那些被他視為「人生底色」的名言，從他眼鏡下面澎湃著的眼神中可以發現，這位留著一頭飄逸長發的斯文大叔，文質彬彬的外表下，藏著一顆「叛逆」的心。

When he mentioned the mottos as his" base color of life", we noticed the excitement in his eyes behind the glasses. This middle-aged man with gentle appearances and smooth long hair has a "rebellious" heart.

戴自更的叛逆還要從17歲那年說起。那一年，寧波的漁村少年接到了人民大學的錄取通知書，坐了27個小時火車，戴自更來到了北京。他說，大學生涯幾乎改寫並奠定了他人生的底色。「人大給了我好多知識，讓我想明白了人為什麼活著，活著就是要改變點什麼。」

The trigger of his rebellious mind started at the age of 17, when this young man from a fishing village in Ningbo received the admission letter from Renmin University of China. After 27 hours of train ride, Zigeng Dai arrived in Beijing. He said that his college experience basically changed and laid the foundation of his life. "I learned a great amount of knowledge from Renmin University. I also figured out the meaning of being alive, which is to make a difference. "

找到人生的方向，「叛逆」的種子在戴自更的心紮下了根，此後，他愈發地成長為了一個「心裡尖銳、有鋒芒」的有志青年。

With life goals determined, the seeds of"rebellion" took root in Zigeng Dai』s mind. Since then, he has grown to become an "acute and sharp-minded" aspiring youth.

這個世界存在著很多團不明朗的黑暗，很多「宿命」與格局，大多數人入世時會選擇「變得圓滑」來與之磨合，而少部分人願意衝撞社會、衝破黑暗，去迎接寬闊與光明，去「改變點什麼」，他們，最終能「成就一代偉業」，能成為英雄。戴自更欣賞他們，鼓勵他們，為他們熱淚盈眶。

There exists immense unclear darkness in the world. Many people choose to "become tactful" to cope with "destinies"and big pictures. Few people dare to conflict with society to break through darkness, embrace a broader and brighter world and 「make a difference」. Those who did were able to "achieve greatness" and became heroes. Touched with tears welling up, Zigeng Dai appreciates and supports them.

戴自更本身恰恰也是其中一員。

Zigeng Dai himself turns out to be one of them.

作為「中國報業創新青年」，戴自更秉承著「辦一份真正意義上的報紙」這份初心，以及「真善美」的創刊理念，創辦了《新京報》。他說，他創《新京報》的目的是「說真話、講真相」，告訴人們真相是什麼，以及這些事情的真相對社會、對個人意味著什麼，「提供出進步的、美好的價值判斷」。

As an "Innovative Youth in China』s Newspaper Industry", Zigeng Dai has adhered to the initial intention of "creating a truly meaningful newspaper" and the concept of "truthfulness, compassion and beauty". Hence, he founded The Beijing News. He claimed that the purpose of founding The Beijing News is to "speak the truth, and tell the truth", sharing with people what the truth is, and what it means to society and to individuals, so as to "provide positive and beneficial value judgement".

2003年，誠懇、真實的《新京報》一經問世，就成為了北京市場版數最多的綜合性大型日報，拿下無數輝煌獎項：「中國最具投資價值的媒體」、「中國最有成長潛力的媒體」、「中國最新銳報紙」、「中國最有影響力的時政報紙」……

In 2003, since the advent of the sincere and truth-seeking newspaper The Beijing News, it has become the largest comprehensive daily newspaper with the most number of pages in Beijing, winning numerous glorious awards: "Media with the Highest Investment Value in China", "Media with the Most Growth Potential in China", "China"s Most Cutting-edge Newspaper", "China"s Most Influential Newspaper of Current Affairs"……

十幾年後，這位曾被授予「中國傳媒業30年風雲人物」、「影響中國十大傳媒領軍人物」、「中國版權產業風雲人物」等諸多稱號的《新京報》創始人搖身轉型，成為「中國企業創投先生」，戴自更帶著《尋找中國創客》，再次風生水起。

After over a decade, Founder of The Beijing News awarded with plenty of titles including "Man of Three Decades in China"s Media Industry", "Top Ten Influential Leader of China"s Media Industry", "Man of China"s Intellectual Property Sector" and so forth, transformed into "Mr. Venture Capitalist for Chinese Enterprises. " He succeeded again as the initiator of the Born for Maker project.

夢開始的地方

Where the dream begins

艾誠：不管您曾經做《新京報》的創始人，還是今天成為《尋找中國創客》的發起人以及北京文投的總經理，都堅持三個字的理念，「真善美「。秉承著這樣的理念，您認為這個時代需要什麼樣的中國創客？您又為什麼要尋找中國創客？

Gloria Ai: Regardless of being Founder of The Beijing News, or the initiator of Born for Maker and President of Beijing Cultural Investment Development Group, you have adhered to the motto of "Truthfulness, Compassion and Beauty" as always. Under such belief, what kind of makers are needed for this era in China? Why are you looking for China makers?

戴自更：我覺得中國一直是一個相對來說缺乏創造力的國度。

Zigeng Dai: I think China has always been lacking innovation.

艾誠：何以得出這樣的結論？

Gloria Ai: How did you come to this conclusion?

戴自更：我們這麼多年來的歷史都是穩定的，或者說的不好一點，是因為長期的專制，人的思維方式一般會比較固化，大家天然地喜歡服從去做一些事情，而不是說獨立自主地去想去做。創客或者創業這個事情，可以改變我們整個社會的一個意識。我不是說現在的社會不好，但是我們的個性還有創造力，始終一直得到一些壓制。所以說，我覺得《尋找中國創客》是個契機。

Zigeng Dai: Our history over the years has been stable, or negatively speaking, because of the long-term autocracy, people"s way of thinking is generally more rigid. People naturally tend to obey instead of taking initiatives. Born for Maker or entrepreneurship can change the consensus in our society. I"m not criticizing our society nowadays, but our personality and innovative capability has always been suppressed. Therefore, I think Born for Maker will be an opportunity.

艾誠：《尋找中國創客》已經開始第五季了，前後五季中有將近9000多個項目在這個平台上去進行展示。他們展示的這些過程有成功有失敗，是不是也會提醒您，當年創立《新京報》的這些初心和當時的故事？

Gloria Ai: The fifth season of Born for Maker has kickstarted. Nearly 9,000 projects in the last five seasons have been displayed on this platform. The demonstrations had successes and failures. Did they also remind you of your intention and experience of founding The Beijing News?

戴自更：這麼些年下來，我接觸了很多創業項目，也跟很多創業者有過特別深度的交流。其實，我當時辦《新京報》，失敗的可能性也非常大。但是我覺得，如果你不嘗試一下，怎麼知道你能不能成功？當時我辦報紙的時候，其實就心目中有一個想法，辦一份能夠相對其他媒體來講，新聞特性更強、更有相對的一些獨立思維方式的這麼一個東西，但是我一直不知道，這個東西能夠走多遠。

Zigeng Dai: In the past years, I have interacted with many entrepreneurial projects and had in-depth exchanges with numerous entrepreneurs. In fact, I was very likely to fail when I founded The Beijing News. However, I thought to myself that if I never tried, how would I know if I could succeed or not? When I was running the newspaper, I actually had an idea in mind that I desired to create a paper that embodies stronger news characteristics and independent thinking compared to other media. Yet, I had no idea how far it could go.

艾誠：您作為發起人，其實還身兼著像北京文投總經理等工作，但依舊決定為這個時代的創客搭建一個平台。9000多個項目在您的眼前走過，您會最中意，最欣賞什麼樣的創始人？同時，您又會選擇什麼樣的創始人作為投資標的？

Gloria Ai: As Founder of Born for Maker and President of Beijing Cultural Investment Development Group, you still decided to build a platform for the makers of this era. After witnessing over 9,000 projects, what kind of entrepreneurs do you appreciate the most? At the same time, what kind of entrepreneurs would you choose as investment targets?

戴自更：其實我在創投的時候，定過一些標準，第一點，還是要有點理想情懷的人。他的所有的想法，包括他的創業，不是為他自己在奮鬥，而是想改變些什麼東西，包括改變外部世界，包括改變別人的生活方式。我搞報紙的時候也是一樣的，創業都是從利他出發，才能最後利己。我從很多創始人的身上，找到了一些原來我自己的影子。

Zigeng Dai: In fact, when I was in venture capital, I set some standards. Firstly, they need to have ideals and dreams. All of their ideas and entrepreneurship cannot be for the benefit of themselves. They should strive to make a difference, such as the world or other people』s lives. It"s the same when I was running the newspaper. Entrepreneurship should start from altruism and eventually bring benefits to themselves. I』ve seen myself in many of the entrepreneurs I met.

「擅自離職」的掌門人？

President "arbitrarily resigned"?

隨著移動智能科技的進一步發展，移動終端愈發普及，碎片時間也愈發增多，人們越來越多利用移動終端新聞APP來獲取實時資訊。社交媒體作為一種新興的新聞信息載體進入了蓬勃發展的時代，眾多門戶網站、傳統媒體以及互聯網巨頭如雨後春筍般在其平台上進行數字化延伸，競爭日漸白熱化。

With the further development of mobile smart technology, mobile terminals are becoming increasingly common, and fragmented time is on the rise. More people are using mobile terminal news apps to obtain real-time information. As an emerging news platform, social media has ushered in a booming era. A number of portals, traditional media and Internet giants have jointly expanded digitalization on their platforms, creating more fierce competition.

十年間，微信公眾號改變了我們的閱讀習慣，「今日頭條」、「財新網」、「澎湃新聞」等APP接連上線，「新浪微博」成為了熱搜榜的發源地。

In the past decade, WeChat public accounts have changed our reading habits. Apps such as "Toutiao", "Caixin.com" and "ThePaper.cn" have been launched one after another. "Sina Weibo" has become the birthplace of the trending list.

媒體格局的變化宛如滄海桑田，傳統媒體受到的衝擊是巨大的。很快，紙媒成斷崖式下跌，傳統媒體的興旺時代隨之成為京華往事，許多小規模的報社也不得不坦然接受各種關於停刊的消息。動蕩中，《新京報》是為數不多堅守矗立著的一員。

The ever-changing media sector has severely impacted traditional media. Within a short amount of time, the paper media industry plummeted, and the prime time of traditional media was over. A good number of small-sized newspapers had no choice but to shut down. During the ups and downs, The Beijing News was one of a small number of those that persistently survived.

2015年，由新京報傳媒研究推出的一篇名為《永遠不要忘記我們為什麼出發》的專訪將戴自更推向「道德的制高點」。文章中清晰地寫著「新京報就是戴自更的理想，也是他的事業。」

In 2015, an exclusive interview entitled 「Don"t forget why we set off」, published by The Beijing News Media, put Zigeng Dai on 「the moral high ground」. The article clearly stated that "The Beijing News is the ideal of Zigeng Dai as well as his undertaking."

然而，2年後的8月，又一篇名為《新京報社長戴自更離職，曾稱「媒體是時代的照明燈」》的文章在媒體界引起巨大漩渦，這一次，這篇文章將戴自更推向了「道德的風口浪尖」。

However, two years later, in August, another article entitled "The Beijing News President Zigeng Dai has resigned, who once "called the media the flashlight of the times"" caused a stir in the media industry. This time, the article put Zigeng Dai under the 「spotlight of moral judgments".

戴自更是否真的「忘記了自己為什麼出發」？

Did Zigeng Dai"forget why he set off" for real?

戴自更：我覺得世界上適合做某一類東西的人，可能不是固定的，這個第一點。第二點，做任何的事情還是有門檻的。這兩個聽起來有點矛盾，實際上好像，你學的某一個專業未必就是你未來要從事職業的方向。像閻焱說了，他以前學航空發動機的，最後又學了社會學，但他後來搞的是投資。像熊曉鴿原來就是個媒體人，學的就是新聞，現在也在做投資。所以說我就說，沒有一成不變的，關鍵看你自己怎麼來定位自己了，怎麼才能把你的專業給補回來。

Zigeng Dai:From my perspective, people might not be solely proficient at one thing. That"s my first point. Secondly, there"s a threshold for everything. These two points seem contradictory, however, in fact, maybe what you learn as your major might not be applicable for your career. Just as Yan Yan put it, he used to learn Aviation Engines and Sociology later on, but he works in the investment sector eventually. For instance, Xiaoge Xiong used to be a media person with a major in Journalism, but he is working on investing as well. Therefore, like I said, nothing stays unchanged. It depends on how you position yourself and how you make up for the professional background.

那麼戴自更是如何定位自己的？

So how does Zigeng Dai position himself?

關於自己為什麼出發，戴自更曾說：「不管做媒體人還是做投資人，對我來說有四條是始終不會變的。一是價值觀，做媒體要有良知、有底線、客觀公正，做投資人也得有社會擔當；二是責任，做媒體時要堅持市場化，整合好資源，做到商業上的成功，做投資更要對經營效益負責，不能違背市場規律；三是自醒，無論做媒體還是做投資，都要知道自己在幹什麼，為誰幹活；四是不懈怠，路都是人走出來的，選擇了一條路，就好好走下去，我想總是會走得通的。當時辦新京報，也是自己選擇的一條全新的路。」

Regarding why he set off, Zigeng Dai once said: "Whether you are a media person or an investor, there are four aspects that I will uphold forever. Firstly, values. A media person must be conscious, have principles, and be objective and fair. An investor must shoulder social responsibilities as well. Secondly, responsibility. As a media professional, you need to insist on marketization, integrate resources, and achieve commercial success. As an investor, you need to be responsible for business returns and must not violate market rules. Thirdly, self-consciousness. No matter whether you』re in media or investment industry, you need to be aware of what you do and who you work for. Fourthly, diligence. Paths are carved out by people. If you choose a path, you should stick to it. I believe it will work out eventually. When I founded The Beijing News, it was a brand-new path for me, too. "

事業變了，初衷沒有

My career has changed; the initial intention has not

戴自更曾說：「我們這代人，骨子裡還是理想主義者，有多少能耐就做多少事情。覺得自己是在做符合良知有力所能及的事，這就夠了。」

Zigeng Dai once said: "People of my generation are in essence idealists. They believe that it"s enough to do things within their capabilities in line with their conscience. "

不管是媒體人還是投資人，戴自更出發的起點，只是想去「衝撞社會環境」，就像他一直信仰的那樣。就像除了傳媒人這一身份以外，他在《新京報》的另一個身份是創始人。

Regardless of whether he is a media person or an investor, Zigeng Dai"s intention was just to "strive against the social environment", as he has always believed. Besides being a media professional, his other identity at The Beijing News is Founder.

艾誠：媒體人離職、出走、轉型，有的轉型去做了創始人，比如說像羅輯思維、凱叔講故事，還有一大批選擇做投資人。媒體加資本的模式，是中國特色嗎？行得通嗎？它是一個暫時的曇花一現嗎？

Gloria Ai: Media professionals resign, leave and transform. Some choose to be founders, such as Luogic Talkshow and Kaishu Story. Many others decide to become investors. Is the pattern of media combined with capital a Chinese characteristic? Does it work? Is it sustainable?

戴自更：我覺得任何的方式都是走出來的，不是預先設定的，沒有任何人可以預先設定這個模式行還是不行。可能我不行，但是我堅持做也可能走得通。

Zigeng Dai: I think any pattern is formed by practice, instead of being pre-set. No one can foresee if this pattern works or not. Maybe I can』t make it work, but if I persist, I might succeed.

我跟你做艾問可能也是一樣的，我可能最早的就是出於想幫助這些創業者做品牌，得到它的傳播效果，實現它的社會的價值。但是做著做著，我覺得像你一樣的，何不咱們在利益上也有所綁定，對不對？我願意承擔你的一些風險，我認可你，我願意跟你一起承擔風險。當然我認可你，也可能因此這種風險變成一種回報。我覺得這是很正常的事情，這種模式行還是不行？我覺得誰也說不準。

My business might share common ground with iAsk, in that I started out with the goal of assisting entrepreneurs in promoting their brand names and realizing their social value. As I ran the business, it occurred to me that I might as well make it profitable, right? I』m willing to shoulder some risks for you because I acknowledge you. Such risks might turn into profit someday, which I think is normal. Does this pattern work? I don』t think anyone is certain about that.

馬雲也說過，他就跟我講過，說老戴，你搞《新京報》很辛苦。但是他又說，你不知道，我背後可能比你更辛苦，你看到我的成功，可一百個成功背後，可能有一千個失敗在裡頭作為基礎。

Jack Ma once said to me: "Buddy, you"ve worked so hard for The Beijing News. "Then he said:

"You might not be aware that I"m probably having a harder time than you. You only see my success, but one hundred successes might be built upon one thousand failures. "

艾誠：如果創業是九死一生的話，同比例對應的，投資也是九死一生，很明顯看到伴隨著2013、2014年的創業浪潮，投資也蜂擁而起，但是2018年的資本寒冬，現在很多基金都在倒閉或者募資難。作為《尋找中國創客》的發起人，您發現了什麼共性？

Gloria Ai: If entrepreneurship is a close shave, accordingly, investing could be the same. It is obvious that with the entrepreneurial wave in 2013 and 2014, investment has also risen up. However, during the downturn of capital market in 2018, plenty of funds are now shut down or having trouble financing. As Founder of Born for Maker, what commonalities have you discovered?

戴自更：我覺得投資人不是百戰百勝的，你們看到的可能都是他投成功的項目，我有看到大量的他不成功的項目。包括我現在身邊那些朋友，跟我一起成為我們導師的那些人物，他們就沒有一些失誤的地方？相反很多。

Zigeng Dai: I think investors are not guaranteed to succeed. You may have seen their successful investment projects, but I have seen countless investment failures. Speaking of my friends and those who became mentors with me, do they make mistakes? A lot actually.

艾誠：我們這代人都會有一個強烈的標籤，這是一個創客時代，讓媒體去接受，讓資本去接受。「創客是一種生活方式，創造可能能夠通向更美好的未來」，您不覺得是一場社會的通識教育？

Gloria Ai: Our generation has a strong sense of labeling things. This is a maker"s era. Let the media and capital accept it. "Being a Maker denotes a lifestyle that may lead to a better future. " Don』t you think it is a general education in society?

戴自更：中國以前是缺少創新思維跟創新環境的一個地方，通過創客作為突破點，來改變整個社會的心態，讓每個人變成獨立的個體。正如我引用的茨威格的話一樣的，英雄是靠堅強的個性去跟社會的環境的衝撞造成的，他們這樣才能成就自己的一些事業。為什麼我不斷鼓勵創客，鼓勵創新？我希望能夠改變我們中國的一種文化，文化改變了之後，我們國人的人格才能發生一些改變。

Zigeng Dai: China used to be a place where people lacked innovative thinking and environment. With the Born for Maker project as a breakthrough, we aim to change the mentality of the whole society and encourage everyone to become independent individuals. Just as a quote from Zweig goes, heroes make accomplishments by striving against the social environment with tough personalities. Why do I constantly encourage Makers and innovation? I hope that I can change part of our Chinese culture. Only after the culture changes can the personality of Chinese nationals change as well.

我做媒體也是想改變一些什麼東西，實現一些個人的價值，讓更多人有跟我一樣的情懷。我做創業也是一樣的，我鼓勵他們，或者說以我的一些微薄的力量給他們提供相應的幫助。當然了，這種東西也可能是我的一個意向，但是我願意去實踐它。

I also want to make a difference in the media industry and realize some personal value, so that more people share the same ideal with me. I do the same for my business. I encourage them or offer them some help within my meager capability. Of course, this may also be my own ideal, but I am willing to put it into practice.

艾誠：《尋找中國創客》你會一直辦下去嗎？

Gloria Ai: Will you keep running Born for maker?

戴自更：不一定，但我希望還會有人來做同樣的事情，為推動中國創業的時代，為了改變我們的一些思維慣性。

Zigeng Dai: Not necessarily, but I hope that someone else will do the same thing to advance the era of Chinese entrepreneurship and change some of our inertia in mentality.

「堅持，自有萬水千山。」

"Persist, eventually you』ll achieve greatness."

END

編輯：徐曼

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