閑聊/聽真正的朋克老炮兒來聊聊，什麼是朋克？

時尚 08-13

什麼是朋克

朋克Punk這個詞，似乎隨便抓一個當代青年都能跟你侃侃而談一番，但是作為非原生文化，國內大眾對於朋克的理解真的足夠準確嗎？

曾經腦濁樂隊的《永遠的烏托邦》里有過這麼一句詞：「我總是撞在理想的槍口，你勸我別再幻想。也不想再啃理想的窩頭，那不是真的烏托邦。」

肖容

某種意義上來說，這段敘述描繪出了朋克文化的一些輪廓 - 布著重複、吶喊與尖銳，它們投射到服裝之中又演變得張力十足渾身帶刺，但這些最初想要體現的不是所謂的風格，而是情緒。

有人曾說朋克是窮出來的。在二戰後英國經濟蕭條的大環境之下，音樂成為了出口。

Sex Pistols

但由於朋克並非國內的原生文化，我們對於它的了解依然有所不足。因此，在維歐藝術聯盟的引薦下，我們特別邀請到了目前在帕森斯藝術學院任教、在朋克文化全盛時期中成長的Keanan Duffty先生。

Keanan Duffty

Keanan Duffty 是一位大小獎項拿到手軟的英國時裝設計師，是 CFDA 會員，同時也是一位音樂家。他畢業於倫敦中央聖馬丁學院，並獲得了時尚藝術榮譽學士學位，還撰寫過反時尚大作《Rebel Rebel: Anti-Style》（Rizzoli，2009）。

2003 年，Duffty 操刀完成了Sex PistolsAmerican Tour 期間的造型設計；2007 年，他與David Bowie一同為 Target 製作了新的時尚系列。

Bowie/Duffty

他的同名時尚品牌成立於 1999 年，在包括Bergdorf Goodman,Lane Crawford,Journal Standard在內的 100 多家零售商處都有銷售，並與Reebok,Ben Sherman,Dr. Martens等品牌有著合作關係，作品常常流露出濃郁的反主流意味。

相比很多時裝從業者對於音樂的玩票性質不同，Duffty 完全擔得起音樂家這個稱呼。

無論是在 07 年和另外三位大神級人物*?一起做的搖滾樂隊Slinky Vagabond中擔任主唱；

*?Earl Click- 和 David Bowie 搭檔演出數十年的吉他手，也和 John Lennon 有過合作；Glen Matlock- Sex Pistols 原貝斯手；Clem Burke- 美國朋克文化和新浪潮的開拓者之一 Blondie 的鼓手

Burke/Matlock/Duffty/Click

Slinky Vagabond

還是在 18 年出了一整張名為《I Am an Alien》的 20th Anniversary Edition 紀念專輯，無不體現著 Duffty 對於音樂的熱愛。

音樂與時尚，這或許是 Duffty 先生身上最為耀眼的兩大標籤，也正是朋克文化最為鮮明的兩種具象體現。

Q / A

Keanan Duffty

Parsons School of Design - The New School

帕森斯藝術學院

Program Director of MPS

時尚商業管理項目總監

既然說到朋克，當然要提到音樂。音樂對您而言意味著什麼，您又會比較喜歡什麼樣的音樂呢？

經典音樂比較是我的類型。我玩搖滾樂居多，但我同時也很喜歡舞曲。在我的生活中音樂無處不在，我喜歡它所帶來的治癒及靈感。

當你在舞台上表演的時候，無論是 DJ 還是樂隊成員都無關緊要。對我來說，這是拋開自我，讓其他一切都就此消失的時刻，是堪稱完美的時刻。當你面對觀眾且與他們獲得某種聯繫的時候，它會有超越時尚的感受，所以比起時尚領域，我可能在音樂室錄音和對著觀眾表演這方面的心得還要多一些。

既然音樂對您而言無處不在，那想必它也是伴隨著您的成長的。剛說了喜歡的類型，接下來可以和我們聊聊您最喜歡的樂隊和樂手嗎？

我真的很幸運，因為我曾經和我最愛樂隊的音樂家們一起共事過。首先是 David Bowie 的吉他手Earl Slick，他為 David Bowie 演奏了 40 年，我以前和他一起做過樂隊；還有Glen Matlock，他是 Sex Pistols 的元老之一；最後是Clem Burke，他是 Blondie 樂隊的鼓手。這三位是我最喜歡的音樂家。

Sex Pistols算是我的啟蒙導師，因為朋克倡導你可以做任何事情，不用按部就班地學習如何做到，只需要跳進去試試。我希望學生們也能明白這一點：學好你的專業範疇是有必要的，但是不要因此害怕去嘗試一些新東西，比如音樂、時裝的設計和製作。

Earl Slick

Glen Matlock

Clem Burke

聽聞您是 Vivienne Westwood 的永久會員，同樣為富有朋克精神的人，您如何看待時下頗為熱門的設計師高橋盾（Jun Takahashi）呢？

Jun非常有才華，他是 Vivienne 的合作夥伴，也是Malcolm Mclaren以及Vivienne Westwood的 vintage 朋克服飾收藏家。在朋克全盛時期，他們所製作的那些系列服裝 -To Fast To Live, To Young To Die. Jun 對於這些系列有著令人驚訝的收藏。對此他不僅做了深入的研究，而且通過這些研究，他還創造了新的風格，並延伸出了時裝設計。

他的品位很好，在經營品牌之餘還在玩朋克搖滾，Undercover 的很多想法就是從中而來，而我喜歡這點。我去年在義大利佛羅倫薩看過 Undercover 的秀，這場秀的主題是《2001 太空漫遊》，這是一場相當精彩的秀。因此我對他深表欽佩。

有沒有知名度有待提高，但本身已經讓您特別欣賞的朋克向品牌或店鋪來分享一番？

實際上我來這裡之前就在東京。在我印象中還有一位設計師*1，他有一個名為The Soloist的品牌，在此之前還曾有過一個品牌叫 Number (N)ine。他和 Jun 是同一個時期的人，但他的新品牌做的相當不錯。我認為它有朋克的內核，但卻更為精緻，所以我相當喜歡。

另外原宿的 Cat Street 有一家零售店叫666，他們已獲得所有初代 Seditionaries*2T恤和衣服的版權。因此，他們如今依然還在生產 1975-77 年間 Malcolm Mclaren 和 Vivienne Westwood 所創造的這些襯衫。所以我尤為鍾愛這家商店，每次去東京都會去那裡買些襯衫以及其他單品。另外由於他們對於 Seditionaries 的重現，我還能在那兒找到一些在我年輕時曾給我帶來靈感的衣服，這相當美妙。不過隨著年齡的增長，我需要買一些適合我的大號。

*1 該設計師為宮下貴裕（Takahiro Miyashita）

*2 1976 年，西太后和她的小情人 McLaren 在 430 King』s Road 開了一家名叫 Seditionaries: Clothes for Heros 的店鋪。當時他們做衣服給一些站街女孩兒跟一些品味不俗的朋克青年，立志於把正常人嚇死。主要特點是瘋狂的T恤印花。

在服裝設計和商業訴求達到平衡似乎是一個普遍的難題，不過對於一個熱衷於反主流的人而言，有沒有找到什麼另闢蹊徑的解決之道？

這確實不容易，因為時尚是一門生意。這項業務往往要求設計師做一些不像他們想要的那樣純粹的事情，因此有時可能會遇到挑戰。

我喜歡顛覆，所以我想也許我可以在商業規則下想出一些雙重含義的點子。有時即便在主流中，我依然可以偷偷摸摸實行這些想法 - 比如當我面對一個有著相當規模的零售商，那麼我或許能在滿足他們的前提下做一些他們不會留意到的小設計去向特定人群傳達我的聲音，就好像..你知道顛覆的含義嗎？就是與整個系統去做抗爭，從權威內部產生出一些對抗權威的聲音，這超有趣。就好像當 Sex Pistols 簽署他們的唱片合約時，他們試圖把落款寫成 The Beatles，因為他們不想與獨立唱片公司合作，他們知道他們如果簽的是大唱片公司可以搞出更大的事。

所以我的想法是，如果我可以進入更廣闊的領域，也許我就能在其中做更多的顛覆。

很有趣的想法！但如果有人確實想要追求這種平衡卻不可得，那麼創作將會變成一件很困難的事吧？畢竟很多時候，創作者自身的想法與商業訴求需要特別多的妥協與磨合。

這可能非常困難。有時候，即便作為一個富有創造力和反叛精神的人，你也必須謀生、你必須吃飯、必須支付賬單。因此當你幾乎被迫做一些不基於是你願景的創作時，這將是一個挑戰，有可能會直接影響到你的願景。

所以無論何時與其他企業打交道的時候，您都需要對自己明確他們只是客戶；但是當你與店鋪或線上零售商打交道的時候，他們會有自己的做事方式，並且帶著一定的需求。你可以自己決定是否妥協和滿足這些需求，不過有時候你也得明白自己是要吃飯的。對於 Jun 來說，幸運的是，他曾是 Comme Des Garcons 的一員，這裡搭建了一個頗具影響力的框架去支持他們的創意，也許不是所有人，但這至少意味著他們有很大機會得到川久保玲（Rei Kawakubo）- 一位能夠理解真正藝術家的創意和靈感的人的支持。

Rei Kawakubo

您在聖馬丁度過了一段美妙的學生生涯，如今又在帕森斯任教，分別在兩所頂級藝術學府以不同的身份生活（過）是怎樣一種體驗？

難以置信。

首先聖馬丁崇尚完全的創作自由，大家可能在做不同的風格，但都相當瘋狂，當時的我看起來也是這樣、沉浸在完全的自由中。不過同時我也很幸運，因為我找到了把這些理念做成產品的方法，讓對它們感興趣的人們能夠切實購買到它們 - 在我的第二個學年，我意識到我的創造力可以讓我自給自足。

對於很多年輕設計師來說，他們其實沒能在職業生涯早期發展出這種自信。在帕森斯授課的時候，我試圖鼓勵學生儘可能多地保持這種創造與自由，並思考如何把想法傳遞給世界。服裝離不開商業售賣，但這也是一個很好的機會可以讓你將想法傳遞給消費者。如果這樣的方式還能讓我填飽肚子，那它不是很棒嗎？除此外，它還能夠讓我感到我讓事情變得有趣，並且讓其他人與這些事情產生聯繫。

我在聖馬丁學到了這些，並試圖讓帕森斯的學生們理解它們並感受到自由所在。這是一個真正意義上的自由：我們很幸運能夠服務於創意領域，因此我們擁有著許多人沒有的自由。我們可以通過製作任何東西，比如音樂、時尚、建築...儘可能以最純粹的方式去表達自己。

訪談錄音轉稿/ Duffty 部分

可上下滑動

I like old types of music. I play a lot of rock n roll, but I also like dance music. I』ve been kind of involved in musical in my life, I love it as a therapy, a great inspiration actually.And when you are on stage performing, it doesn』t matter when you are a DJ, or you are playing music with a band. It』s the moment when, for me, I lose myself, and everything else disappears, it is, just that moment. You have an audience, and you connect with audience, it is actually more than fashion, I don』t have an experience in fashion, I only have an experience in performing music or singing or recording. Recording in the studios sometimes, but performing with the audience.

I』ve been really lucky, because some of the musicians in my favorite bands, I work with. So, David Bowie』s guitar player, Earl Slick, he played with David Bowie for 40 years. I have a band with him, and with Glen Matlock, who is the original, one of the original of Sex Pistols. And Clem Burke, who』s the drum from the band Blondie. That』s three are my favorite answers. Sex Pistols, they inspired when I was a kid, because punk said you can just do anything. You didn』t have to learn how to do it. You just jump in and try. And it』s something I think really good to relate to students. It』s good to learn your craft, but also, don』t be afraid to try right away and make something, like making some music and making some fashion, designing something and creating.

Well, Jun is extremely talented, and he is amazing collector, of vintage punk clothing, of Vivienne Westwood, of Malcolm Mclaren, who』s Vivienne』s partner. The clothing they made during they retail stores they have during punk, which was Too Fast to Live, Too Young to Die, SEX consider she makes, and Jun has an amazing collection of those clothes. So not only does he do amazing research, but with that research, he creates new styles, they have almost couture, emm, He has got very good taste, but he is working with kinda punk rock, and the idea behind it all, and I love that. I think he is an incredibly talented guy, I love his work, I have saw a show of Undercover, in Florence, Italy last year, and the theme of the show was 2001 Space Odyssey, and it was an amazing show. So I have a great admiration for him.

Actually, I was just in Tokyo before I came here. And there is a designer, has a brand called 「The Soloist」, and before that he had a brand called 「Number (N)ine」, and he is a contemporate with Jun, his new brand, not that new, but relatively new, called 「The Soloist」, I think it』s incredible. I think it has punk inspiration, but it』s more refined, so I love that brand. I also love, there is a retail store, in cat street, in Harajuku, 「666」, and they have a licensed for all of the original Seditionaries T-shirts and clothes . So they are still making those shirts from, you know, back in 1975, 76, 77, Malcolm Mclaren and Vivienne Westwood created. So I love that store, I go there and buy some shirts every time I go to Tokyo. And I will buy other pieces from there too, because they have the rights to reproduce this Seditionaries collection, so actually I can go there and still get a little bit of the clothes that inspired me when I was a kid, and that』s great. And I can gradually buy bigger sizes since I get older.

Yes, and I was lucky to know Malcolm Mclaren, because he moved to New York, and he passed away in 2010, but before he passed away we rushed planning a fashion collection together. Unfortunately, he got sick and he passed away, and it was after I did the fashion collection with David Bowie, so Malcolm and I were planning to do the next collaboration. And back in, I guess the early 90s, 80s, he sold the rights of some original seditionaries clothes, to the guys in Japan who have the brand 666. So they were kind of lucky, cause they have the rights to make those I think forever.

It isn』t easy. Because fashion is a business. The business often requires that the designers to maybe do things that not as pure as they would want to, so it sometimes can be challenging. I think what I try to do, I like to be subversive, so I like to maybe make ideas that maybe have a double meaning. And sometimes in the mainstream, I can sneak in these ideas, like the way we have the collection for Target, which was a very big, nice retailer, we were able to do somethings that they didn』t realize that was very chicky. They were kind of like... do you know the meaning of subversive? Doing something against the system. I think it is very interesting, to actually go inside and something mainstream, something big, and do something against them, mainstream. And that』s why when Sex Pistols signed their record deal, they wanted to sign the label as the Beatles, they didn』t want to be with the independent label. Because they knew they could made more damage, in the big label. So my idea is, if I can get into the big space, maybe do more destruction in the big space.

It can be very difficult. Because sometimes, as a creative person, you have to make a living, you know, you have to eat. You have to pay the bill. So that will be a challenging when you might be almost forced to do something that is not exactly your vision, it』s maybe a compromised of your vision.

Yeah. And whenever you are dealing with other entity, with someone else, you know they are just costumers. But when you are dealing with other stores or digital retailers, they have their way of doing things, and they have certain needs. And so you can compromise and fulfill those needs or not, but sometimes the demand is you have to eat. With Jun, he is in a way fortunately, he is part of Comme Des Garcons，because they have the influenced structure to support their ideas, maybe not for every one, but they can be supported with Rei Kawakubo, who understands the true artists creative inspiration.

Amazing. Because it was total creative freedom, and whatever is doing there, is doing very crazy clothes, and I was looking much very crazy too. And I was total free there to do that, but I was also lucky because I found a way to make things , and for other people to actually want them, to buy them, and really earlier in my second year, my self-morning year, I realize that the creativity can be a way to support yourself as well as to make a living. And for a lot of young designers they don』t have that confidence, they don』t develop that confidence that early in their career, but I was kinda lucky for this was sort of happened. and so I really treasure that. With teaching in Parsons, I tried to encourage students to maintain that much creativity and freedom as I can, but also to think about how they can get their ideas out into the world. Because the commerce part of it is selling, for me is just getting my ideas to someone else. If by doing that I can make a living and eat, and pay my bills, that』s great. But is also being able to get an idea that I make things interesting and make someone else connect with that, and so I think, I learned that in saint martin and try to empower students at Parsons to understand that and feel that freedom. It』s a lot of freedom. We are lucky that we are in creative field because we have the freedom that many people don』t have. We can express ourselves by making anything, music, fashion, architecture, it』s all about expressing yourself in the purest way as you can.

編輯 /唯今

聽譯 /Ephemeral

特別感謝 /小王中王