綜合得分傳球，數據顯示哈登本賽季打出史上最偉大進攻端表現！

運動 04-06

美國JRS之聲

Combined scoring and passing (and TS%), Harden has a pretty good argument for the greatest offensive season in NBA history.

綜合這賽季的得分和傳球（以及真實命中率），哈登可以讓人很信服的說——他正在進攻端打出NBA歷史上最偉大的表現。

[–]Kingskrancar 108 指標 1 天前

Wouldnt Curry last season have a crazy TS% especially with 50+ FG% and 90+ FT%? Or is it Harden"s extra 5 assists that boosts his "productivity"

難道庫里上賽季驚人的真實命中率沒有更可怕嗎，尤其是他50+的投籃命中率外加90+的罰球命中率。或者說是哈登比庫里多出來的5個助攻增加了他的效率。

[–]Supersonicsexasperated_dreams 128 指標 1 天前

hardens ts this season is .62 with a per of 28, currys ts last season was .669 with a per of 31.5

哈登這賽季的真實命中率為0.62，外加28的效率值；庫里上賽季的真實命中率則達到了0.669外加31.5的效率值。

[–]Pistonsthe_shins 31 指標 1 天前

Steph had about 4,5% higher TS than Harden, while having about 5 assists less. Stephs last season is probably the greatest shooting season ever, if you look at the volume. But I agree with Scaletta that Hardens season this year all round could be the best offensive season ever.

庫里的真實命中率比哈登高了4到5個百分點，但是場均少了5個助攻。如果你單從出手頻率上看的話，庫里上賽季的投射也許是歷史最佳的。但是我還是同意樓主的說法，綜合來看，哈登在進攻端的表現也許才是歷史最佳。

[–]Warriorsnymphoblastic 104 指標 1 天前*

Not Sure how Harden"s season is better. Harden has 4.5 more assists, but also 2.5 more turnovers. Steph scored more, and was way more efficient (which is saying something, as Harden has been incredibly efficient this year). Which doesn"t even take into account that Harden plays 2.5 more MPG and it doesn"t factor in non-box score impacts

不確定為什麼哈登這賽季在進攻端的表現就要比上賽季的庫里強了。他比庫里場均多了4.5個助攻，但是同時也多了2.5個失誤。上賽季庫里場均得分更多，而且效率遠比哈登高（這也說明了一些問題，因為這賽季哈登的效率已經非常高了）。而且我還沒有把哈登場均多上場的2.5分鐘考慮在內，同時也沒有考慮數據表之外的影響。

[–]Knicksunderhunter 44 指標 1 天前

Not to mention that Curry played so many fewer minutes.

更不用說上賽季的庫里比哈登這賽季的上場時間少多了。

[–][SEA] Ray Allentoosmoothwiththis 131 指標 1 天前*

Steph completely shattered the offensive box plus minus record last year. Harden is having a great season, but his offensive impact isn"t close to Steph last year. Harden would be #10 on the all time OBPM list.

庫里上賽季在正負值這一項上完全取得了統治地位。哈登這賽季確實不錯，但是他在進攻端的影響和上賽季的庫里相比還是差遠了。不過哈登的進攻聯盟平均正負值應該還是能排進歷史前十吧。

[–]SpursDeMichaelDeJordan 161 指標 1 天前

I like how the Curry comments are getting downvoted.. Oh how soon people forget. 30 ppg on 50/40(5)/90.

我真是喜歡人們給支持庫里的評論點滅的行為...難道這麼快你們就忘記了用50/40(3分球)/90命中率場均砍下30分的日天表現嗎？

[–]RocketsHakeemTheDreamShake 97 指標 1 天前

Curry had the single best scoring season of all time.

（火蜜）上賽季的庫里絕對打出了歷史上單賽季得分的最佳表現。

[–][SEA] Ray Allentoosmoothwiththis 41 指標 1 天前

MJ 35 PPG on 60 TS% with virtually no 3 point shot?

那麼喬丹以60%的真實命中率場均砍下35分，而且幾乎不投3分的表現又改排第幾呢？

[–]NetsBigbadbuck 48 指標 1 天前

The thing is curry did it in 34 mins a game on .670 ts%! .670 is unheard of. Jordan did 35 in 40 mins a game. Per 100 possessions they were almost even in scoring as well. So I think Curry had the better offensive season, and his team won 73 games moslty because of his brilliance

庫里最厲害的地方在於他只在場均34分鐘的上場時間裡就做到了，而且真實命中率達到了0.670。喬丹可是花了場均40分鐘才砍下的35分，另外也從來沒有達到過0.67的真實命中率。換算到每100回合來說，他倆的得分幾乎一樣。所以我覺得庫里在進攻端的表現還是要更出色一些，而且那一年勇士能拿到73勝，很大程度上也是因為他日天的表現。

[–]Warriorsnymphoblastic 65 指標 1 天前*

Jordan played 6 more MPG but scored only 5 more PPG and was drastically less efficient. Curry"s season was better

喬丹場均上場時間比庫里多了6分鐘，得分卻只高了5分，而且效率比庫里低得多。所以上賽季的庫里在進攻端的表現是更出色的。

[–]-en- 16 指標 1 天前

So you"re saying Jordan played not quite 20% more minutes and scored not quite 20% more points.

所以你說的是，喬丹在場均上場時間並沒有比庫里多出20%的情況下也沒有砍下比庫里多20%的分數，這非常合理。

[–]Warriorsnymphoblastic 47 指標 1 天前

I"m saying that Curry scored more per minute, and did it drastically more efficiently than Jordan.

我說的是，庫里每分鐘的得分比喬丹要多，而且比喬丹的效率高多了。

[–]Warriorsnymphoblastic 34 指標 1 天前

Being just as efficient (or almost as efficient) under a much heavier workload is more impressive.

But that"s not what we"re talking about. MJ wasn"t even close to as efficient as Steph. MJ"s ts% was about 6% better than a league average player that season. That"s how much better Steph"s ts% was than Jordan"s. Steph was just flat out better at scoring, MJ just played more minutes.

That"s why Curry shooting 45% on ~900 shots is more impressive than Reddick shooting 46% on less than 500 shots. But it"s the same reason Currys scoring wasn"t on par with MJs

Ok, except MJ wasn"t even close in efficiency. It would be more like comparing a guy shooting 40% on 1100 shots vs 45% on 900 shots.

（勇蜜）在更繁重的上場時間下打出近乎一樣的效率（或者差不多的效率）是更出色的表現。

但是這並沒有發生，喬丹的效率和庫里相比差遠了。喬丹那賽季的真實命中率比聯盟一般的球員高出了6個百分點，而這也恰恰正是庫里比他高的部分。所以庫里在得分上就是比喬丹出色，很簡單的道理，而喬丹只是出場時間多了一點而已。

這就是為什麼庫里在900次三分出手裡達到45%的命中率要比雷迪克以46%的命中率出手不到500記三分更出色。庫里得分能力遠比喬丹強的根本原因也是和上面一樣。

因為喬丹在效率上和庫里的差距很大，就好像一個出手1000次命中率40%的球員和另外一個出手900次命中率45%的球員相比一樣。

[–]Spursdiderooy 42 指標 1 天前

You know the list is good when it has Oscar Robertson listed five times, and doesn"t have MJ, Kareem, Stockton, or a number of arguably better offensive players listed at all.

Harden"s having a great season, and probably an all-timer. But higher offensive numbers than we"ve seen in years need to be normalized against other eras somehow, and that combination of statistics is not an end-all, be-all of offensive skill (though if you had to pick three, they would all be in the running).

當你看到這份榜單里奧斯卡-羅伯特森出現了5次，而喬丹，賈巴爾，斯托克頓或者其他看起來更強的進攻球員都沒有出現時，你就知道這份排名有些問題。

哈登這賽季的表現確實非常出色，很可能是歷史級別的。但是當不同時代的數據放在一起進行比較時，我們應該設立一個標準，把所有的數據進行標準化才行。而且最後，就算是你綜合了所有的數據，也並不能說明一名球員在進攻端的全部貢獻（儘管如果你要選出前三的話，他們都應該在考慮中）。

[–]CavaliersTheBigEgg23 159 指標 1 天前

I"m not bashing harden, he clearly is having an all-time great season... but this seems to completely ignore the nearly 6 turnovers per game, which doesn"t seem to be acknowledged enough. Correct me if I"m wrong, but does this account for turnovers at all?

我不是貶低哈登，他顯然打出了一個歷史級別的賽季...但是看上去你們完全忽略了他場均接近6個的失誤，這點根本沒有得到重視。如果我說錯了，請糾正我，但是難道在進攻端的表現完全和失誤無關嗎？

[–]Pistonsthe_shins 107 指標 1 天前

5.8 turn overs is a lot, but his assist/to ratio is 1.95, and Stephs last season was 2.03. I"d say Hardens ratio is pretty good considering the volume of possessions he uses. Most stars seems to have somewhere around 2.05 this season. For example 1.95 is way higher than Kawhi Lenoards this season. LeBron is having his highest APG and he have a 2.09 ratio, and it was lower last season aswell.
5.8個失誤確實很多，但是他的助攻/失誤比達到了1.95，上賽季的庫里則是2.03。但是考慮到哈登的助攻頻率更好，我覺得哈登這這項數據上還是表現不錯的。大多數球星的助攻失誤比這賽季都在2.05左右。但是1.95的助攻失誤比還是比倫納德高了不少，勒布朗的這一數據則達到了生涯新高的2.09，比上賽季的要高。

[–]RocketsbyRockets 64 指標 1 天前

Assist/to ratio is somewhat misleading. Not all of hardens turnovers are from passing, a lot of them are him just losing the ball or an offensive foul.

助攻失誤比有時候會誤導人，因為並不是哈登所有的失誤都來自與傳球，其中有很多都只是他運球運丟了或是進攻犯規。

[–]RocketschefnoguardD 31 指標 1 天前

That and we still average the second most assists per game in the league as a team and our turnovers per game puts us as 14th in the league in that category which is pretty good if you ask me

（火蜜）就算這樣說，窩火球隊整體的場均助攻數在聯盟還是排在了第二，雖然整體場均失誤也排到了第14，但是我覺得還不錯，你覺得呢。

[–]NBAjokes_on_you 25 指標 1 天前*

Why is assist:turnover ratio so commonly used anyway? Harden"s turnover rate is 19.6%, Kawhi"s is 8.9%, LeBron"s is 16.7%, Steph"s is 13.0%, and Westbrook"s is 15.8%.

Edit: Harden"s season would put him at 49th highest TOV% all time. Dennis Rodman occupies the #1 and 2 spots. Dwight Howard has the highest season by an active player with 21.4% in 06-07 for #19. Draymond Green had the 22nd highest TOV% of all time last year.

為什麼你們這麼喜歡用助攻失誤比這個數據？哈登的失誤率達到了19.6%，倫納德是8.9%，勒布朗為16.7%，庫里13.0%，威少是15.8%。

註：哈登這賽季的失誤率排在了歷史第49位，歷史第一和第二都由羅德曼保持著。在霍華德失誤率最高的賽季06-07，這一數據達到了21.4%，排名歷史19。而德雷蒙德-格林上賽季的失誤率也達到了歷史第22。

[–]fabosexy 9 指標 1 天前

Using ts% and fg% as a comparison between eras is stupid. Ts% was almost 5% lower just 10 years ago.

只用真實命中率和投籃命中率作為比較標準來比較不同時代的球員是非常愚蠢的。10年前，幾乎所有球員的真實命中率都要比現在低5個百分點。

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